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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#481

Post by infinite8s »

KeytarHero wrote: post #384
dandare wrote: post #379

What if I simply reset my Android phone to factory settings just before exiting the plane? Can they force me to log in to my Android account in order to get to my FB? And what if my battery is dead or my phone stops working? Can they force me to log in to their own Android phone? What if I don't carry any phone at all, can they simply force me to log in to an empty phone? (Assuming everyone has an Android or Apple ph…

What if I have my phone set to wipe itself after 10 incorrect login attempts, and I "accidentally" get my password wrong 10 times while trying to unlock it for them?

Are you willing to be blacklisted from entering the US for 10 years and sent back (assuming you aren't a US citizen). If you are, they might just detain you a while.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#482

Post by gkya »

vacri wrote: post #456
gkya wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the Ukrainians start to run from Russia the reception will quite different - case in point - the armenias during the genocide. The whole western world sat and watched two decades of persecution that Armenians suffered which ended up becoming a genocide, even Russia who declared herself the protector of Ottoman Orthodox christians didn't move a finger. And those who managed to flee the country were not always wel…

... the whole western world was largely just dandy with oppression and genocide if it wasn't European-looking. Look at what Belgium did to the Congo, or what the UK did to China. Slavery had been verboten for a long while, but killing funny-looking or poor people wasn't so bad if it was out of sight. Also, in 1915 when the Armenian genocide started, the western world was already locked in a bitter war with the Ottoma…

The persecution of the armenian started in 1880s, and it continued until 1915 came around.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#483

Post by dzhiurgis »

WildUtah wrote: post #433
tptacek wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a non-citizen and you choose to go back home, you're probably also choosing not to be admitted back into the US for a long stretch of time, at least without a struggle.

Yes, it's a small but real risk foreigners should consider every time they chose to cross the US border.

It's no small risk. It's forcing you to whistleblow with no protection. Forcing you to do something, that they kill their own citizens for.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#484

Post by mschuster91 »

angry_octet wrote: post #425
mschuster91 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With phones without sealed batteries, the IMEI(s) are usually printed on a sticker in the battery compartment. Samsung and Apple engrave the IMEI on the outer casing of sealed devices. Always know where the manufacturer printed the IMEI, so you don't have to unlock the phone in front of police.

Of course, if you give them the IMEI it facilitates them listening to your phone calls and tracking your location. The 'checking for stolen phones' thing seems totally implausible to me.

It's quite effective, tbh. Stealing phones is still a way to net loads of money if you know a buyer who doesn't give a damn about the source. Hard-reset the phone so it appears clean and off you go.

The only vendor that actively prevents the usage of stolen phones is Apple, because the owner can remote-lock it even if the phone gets wiped via iCloud.

The ideal way would be if network operators cooperated by maintaining a list of "supposedly stolen" IMEI codes and alerted police if a matching phone tries to log in into the network.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#485

Post by OJFord »

zeveb wrote: post #476
OJFord wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they rarely do it (roughly 4,500 times last year, IIRC) My mistake, I hadn't heard of this until recently (and clearly didn't read the article properly) and assumed it was a new policy under Trump. At a rate of around 0.0012%, and assuming it's more targeted than random, my actual chance of being asked is much lower, yes sure, that probably is worth the risk of being turned around.

> My mistake, I hadn't heard of this until recently (and clearly didn't read the article properly) and assumed it was a new policy under Trump. The really great thing about having a Republican (even if only technically) president is that the news media suddenly rediscover the virtues of small government, and the dangers of an unbalanced power structure (a similar phenomenon holds with Democratic presidents & conserva…

> I can honestly and without deception say that I cannot do what is asked.

The general consensus seems to be that you'll be turned around.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#486

Post by vacri »

gkya wrote: post #482
vacri wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... the whole western world was largely just dandy with oppression and genocide if it wasn't European-looking. Look at what Belgium did to the Congo, or what the UK did to China. Slavery had been verboten for a long while, but killing funny-looking or poor people wasn't so bad if it was out of sight. Also, in 1915 when the Armenian genocide started, the western world was already locked in a bitter war with the Ottoma…

The persecution of the armenian started in 1880s, and it continued until 1915 came around.

The Congo Free State (= Belgian atrocities) started in the 1880s as well.

The Ottoman Empire was a world power up until the first world war - suggesting that other world powers should go to war against them because of how they treat people in their own sphere of influence is completely missing the context of the times.

Hell, it's even missing the context of the current times - how many western nations intervened in the annexing and oppression of the Crimean peninsula by Russia? What is the World Cop doing about the clear oppression of Tibetans by China? What is anyone doing about the plight of North Koreans under their murderous dictatorship? What about the Khmer Rouge in the 70s, where the World Cop actually backed the people doing the genocide?

Context is important.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#487

Post by l0b0 »

soft_dev_person wrote: post #67
jacquesm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. The whole idea that this sort of thing is even anywhere near acceptable behavior revolts me.

Yeah, I pretty much decided to never travel to the US again the first time I heard you may be compelled to unlock your Facebook profile for the customs. Not because I have something particular to hide, but as a gay person in a hostile world I have learned to care about my privacy. Not a huge loss for me, not a huge loss for the US, but it accumulates.

I applied to an interesting research job for a US university a few years back, but only got to the first interview stage. I was going to try again with much more relevant experience in a couple months, but that's now completely out of the question for the next eight years at least. This is what happens when people stop taking democracy seriously.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#488

Post by sandworm101 »

mahyarm wrote: post #465
sandworm101 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian, so no visa req for visits. Special temp visa for lawyer work, issued at boarder crossing. They dont get mad. The trick is to be reasonable. They know it will be difficult to get an order/warrant to search a lawyer's machine. Lawyer-client confidentiality is one of the few things that trumps even terrorism.

Well, you have a status that could go away if the CBP officer gets grumpy. At least you don't have a living in the USA to protect. As a client although, is that ok? Also this guy worked for NASA, and knowing many big corps that kind of policy would apply in some indirect way with work devices. But it didn't seem to matter for him.

Nasa isnt a law firm. Lawyer communications are treated by different rules, rules above things like classifications.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#489

Post by angry_octet »

mschuster91 wrote: post #484
angry_octet wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, if you give them the IMEI it facilitates them listening to your phone calls and tracking your location. The 'checking for stolen phones' thing seems totally implausible to me.

It's quite effective, tbh. Stealing phones is still a way to net loads of money if you know a buyer who doesn't give a damn about the source. Hard-reset the phone so it appears clean and off you go. The only vendor that actively prevents the usage of stolen phones is Apple, because the owner can remote-lock it even if the phone gets wiped via iCloud. The ideal way would be if network operators cooperated by maintaini…

None of the carriers cooperate across borders! The phones that can't just be flashed with a new IMEI are rebirthed overseas.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#490

Post by erklik »

turc1656 wrote: post #317
jdalgetty wrote: post #100

I don't understand America's fascination with snooping through peoples shit.

Neither do most Americans. It's the authoritarians in charge of this shit show that have the fascination.

Yet they vote for those exact authoritarians. Quite fascinating actually.
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