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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but a text saying "we'll see you at work 8am on Monday" as you are entering Australia is probably good enough reason to be denied entry if you have a tourist visa.

It probably is, yes. Does that actually happen on this TV show? (Not sure why I get downvotes but no clear answers to simple yes/no questions.)

Yes, this exact scenario occurs quite frequently on this Netflix show. It's almost invariably a 20-something working as a server at a restaurant.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#382
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. " Which countries would those be? As far as I know, every country (or quasi-country, such as the EU) asserts the right to carry out a full inspection of anything crossing its border.

As far as I know, Swiss border police/customs officers (which often operate at random places in the country, not necessarily at the border) are not allowed to check the content of any electronic device without a search warrant. They can ask you to unlock the phone and show the IMEI number when suspicious of theft, but that's about it. Source: friend of mine worked there.

With phones without sealed batteries, the IMEI(s) are usually printed on a sticker in the battery compartment. Samsung and Apple engrave the IMEI on the outer casing of sealed devices.

Always know where the manufacturer printed the IMEI, so you don't have to unlock the phone in front of police.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#383
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure those are actual Ukrainians, and not just ethnical Russians with Ukrainian citizenship? Ans who said those aren't actual Ukrainians? Ukraine has been multi-ethnic for centuries... > Eastern Ukraine has a huge Russian minority. And has had for centuries, but it's seldom mentioned in stories about "Russia invading Crimea". It's as if e.g. Baja California had 60% population of US ethnicity, Mexico's gover…

It's as if e.g. Baja California had 60% population It's not 'as if' and you're regurgitating Russian propaganda and shallow whataboutism. The key issue is Russia invaded and annexed a piece of a sovereign country, a country whose territorial integrity it was bound to respect not just by international norms but a relatively recent treaty. It just isn't comparable.

>It's not 'as if'

Actually it is just like that. What part did you find unlike that? The "sovereignty"? Mexico, which I used as my example, is also sovereign. And the rest of the things are all true: Ukraine is directly in Russia's borders, it has areas with large ethnic Russian population, and it's legitimate government was toppled. Even the part about bona fide neo-nazis being part of the power coalition is true.

>and you're regurgitating Russian propaganda

No, I'm rather not force-fed with BS west propaganda for the events. (And I'm not Russian either, so it's not like I have a horse in the race. I just can't stand hypocrisy).

Russia is a 1000 pound bear, mostly minding its own business and border interests, and is blamed by a 10,000 pound King Kong who rampages all over the globe.

(USSR yes, it did pull the same kind of shit all around the globe too. But not today's minor player Russia).

>and shallow whataboutism.

Those that bring on "whataboutism" are the ones that are OK with one side doing all kinds of crap (even 10.000 miles away from it's borders, where it has no business to be, and with thousands of dead and total mayhem caused by its actions) but only criticize the other side for doing 1/100 as much -- and are quick to shout against whataboutism when that is pointed out to them.

It's like a murderer calling out a guy that merely slapped an annoying person -- and when called on it, he complains about "whataboutitsm".

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#384

What if I simply reset my Android phone to factory settings just before exiting the plane? Can they force me to log in to my Android account in order to get to my FB? And what if my battery is dead or my phone stops working? Can they force me to log in to their own Android phone? What if I don't carry any phone at all, can they simply force me to log in to an empty phone? (Assuming everyone has an Android or Apple ph…

What if I have my phone set to wipe itself after 10 incorrect login attempts, and I "accidentally" get my password wrong 10 times while trying to unlock it for them?

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. The whole idea that this sort of thing is even anywhere near acceptable behavior revolts me.

Yeah, I pretty much decided to never travel to the US again the first time I heard you may be compelled to unlock your Facebook profile for the customs. Not because I have something particular to hide, but as a gay person in a hostile world I have learned to care about my privacy. Not a huge loss for me, not a huge loss for the US, but it accumulates.

I don't want to be one of those people who go on about the fact that they're not on Facebook, but what if they asked me for my Facebook logins and I told them I don't have any social media accounts? (I mean, bar Github if you count that as a social network).

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#386
post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

> But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices confiscated, and then put on a flight out of the country.

Wouldn't an OK mitigation be to give the device to a US citizen for the border crossing? The US citizen could legitimately say it's not mine, it's my friend's and I don't know their password. The alien would have no item to be unlocked.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#387
post #162
post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

--> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. How do password managers play into this? I'm likely going to be traveling to the US on business. I'll be bringing a travel phone rather than a normal phone (This is my standard travel practice for any country). I could do the same with a computer. I don't mind…

I use syncthing.

Mostly for syncing all my music and pictures between phone / laptop and home server.

For your use case, there is a solution with the caveat that your password manager is unavailable on the flight. Simply have a dumb phone on entry with Syncthing and your Password manager installed but no password file. Once you have been allowed entry into the despotic regime's lands, connect to a starbucks wifi, initiate syncthing and it will pull your password file from your home server / computer etc.

If you update your password file, it will be synced back to your home server. When you travel again, disable syncthing, delete your password manager.

Or use an ssh script to pull it from your home server.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the moment you say "No, I don't have any other hidden files on here" or "There, you have access to all my files now" you've committed a federal crime. So then you don't say those things. This covers the much more common (I'd imagine) case where a traveler is asked to turn on his device and enter the password, but possibly not the case where the traveler is being grilled/interrogated on the contents of his device. B…

If you're a US citizen, go ahead and try to outsmart them with TrueCrypt. My guess is most of the time you'll succeed. But if you're an alien --- and, especially, if you're a brown-skinned alien --- don't have TrueCrypt on your laptop. You can make an encrypted backup of your machine and store it in some innocuous place in the cloud, or have it Fedexed to wherever you're staying. There's just no good reason to play g…

Just so we're clear, I think the right strategy for anyone who could reasonably expect to be targeted (journalists, certain types of researchers, people with funny names, those who've sent mean tweets about the POTUS, ...) is to avoid carrying sensitive data when crossing borders.

What I think all US citizens should do is use whole disk encryption (but everyone should do that), and refuse to comply with requests to provide their passwords, even at the risk of missing flights / losing equipment / spending a day in a room talking to unfriendly people. Frankly, this is just an egregious and pointless violation of our 4th amendment rights.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#389
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think so. But you want to do it in such a way that there's no "restore" button you could push on your phone once you're compelled to log in to any accounts that are clearly associated with the phone. One way to do this would be to back your phone up, encrypt it, and stash the file somewhere else, then scrub the phone and back that up so that you could, if under questioning by CBP, perform a plausible restore.

What if they ask you for your Google account(s)? Google is social media! Google Plus!?

Create a plausible decoy account. I've literally created dozens of gmail accounts, for other purposes, might as well have one for this.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#390
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's as if e.g. Baja California had 60% population It's not 'as if' and you're regurgitating Russian propaganda and shallow whataboutism. The key issue is Russia invaded and annexed a piece of a sovereign country, a country whose territorial integrity it was bound to respect not just by international norms but a relatively recent treaty. It just isn't comparable.

> It's not 'as if' Actually it is just like that. What part did you find unlike that? The "sovereignty"? Mexico, which I used as my example, is also sovereign. And the rest of the things are all true: Ukraine is directly in Russia's borders, it has areas with large ethnic Russian population, and it's legitimate government was toppled. Even the part about bona fide neo-nazis being part of the power coalition is true.…

If America invaded Mexico I could get your point, but they didn't (so far, with Trump at the helm all bets are off).

Oh, and Ukraine is not within Russia's borders. The USSR died a while ago.

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