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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#451

Post by type0 »

PeterisP wrote: post #311
rebuilder wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, as a non-US citizen, if you don't bring a device that can log into your Facebook account, they might deny you entry? Of course rhey might deny you entry for any reason, and them caring so much about your social media accounts is probably a sign you're on a shitlist somewhere, so maybe it doesn't matter so much. I wonder, though, if you don't have FB etc. accounts, do they believe you?

There's a big factor of subjective evaluation, but it can be quite effective. A large majority of people do have FB accounts, and even care about their FB accounts as illustrated by their worries about providing access to them. For most people they wouldn't bother to look, only a tiny fraction of travelers get their devices checked. And if you really don't have FB etc. accounts, they may believe you - I have little r…

So, basically there probably going to be honest people where they would tell the truth, that they don't use thefcnkfacebook but because some scammer has created a fake profile of them would be turned back at the border. Amazing brave new world we live in...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#452

Post by aceofspades19 »

mgbmtl wrote: post #337
thrusong wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had a nice experience returning to Canada (either by plane or car) after a trip to the US or Mexico. I get the full "random search" in a secluded room every single time.

Anecdotal, but: I suspect that the CBP have very specific criteria that can flag specific situations. I know someone who would systematically get arrested/interrogated by plain clothes officers if she was returning back to Canada alone. When not alone, no problem. Once, she was on the point of being arrested, when she pointed to her partner, and they stepped back. Although they never wanted to admit why. After a bit…

CBP is Customs and Border Protection which is the American department for that. Canada has the CBSA - Canadian Border Services Agency. So you wouldn't get harassed by the CBP if you were entering Canada, it would be the CBSA.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#453

Post by drusepth »

prawn wrote: post #444
drusepth wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a not-quite-as-bad grilling at the UK CBP, where they required me to log into my banking apps and show them my accounts & balances, as well as transaction histories to determine whether I was currently working remotely (and, therefore, would continue "illegally" working remotely while in the country).

Decade ago they were doing that in the UK. Showing proof of funds when you arrived. Had one trip to the US where they asked how much money I was carrying. I said none, just a credit card. They asked if I were planning to work there. I said no, I'll pull money from the debit card as I go. They (presumably) acted puzzled about this.

Proof of funds is one of the three things they apparently still require. I had to show proof of funds (~$1000/month), proof of lodging (airbnb itinerary), and proof of leave (an already-booked plane ticket at the end of my stay).

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#454

Post by refurb »

deftturtle wrote: post #300
refurb wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but I don't put much weight on international law. In order for a law to have impact, someone has to enforce it. Who will enforce international laws? The UN?

Yes, any treaties or laws ratified by congress have the full legal weight as any national law. They must be upheld by our nation; otherwise, it's unconstitutional.

Yes, but then you're asking countries to police themselves. If following the law is not in the countries best interest, they won't do it unless someone else forces them to.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#455

Post by tptacek »

llamataboot wrote: post #418
tptacek wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they can.

This is unclear. They can ASK, but as far as I know it's unsettled territory whether this is refusable.You can definitely refuse it as a USC and I would bet, as an LPR. Gets trickier when on any other visa as then your entry is essentially all "discretion"

The problem is that it's pretty much CBP's discretion whether you --- a non-citizen --- are being responsive. There aren't statutes for this stuff.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#456

Post by vacri »

gkya wrote: post #289
venomsnake wrote: post #269

We barely stopped the last mostly male refugee wave at Vienna. For you islam may be just a religion but for EE it is dervishme, being second tier humans and the reason the renesaince in Eastern europe started 500 years later. If the refugees were vulnerable it is possible. But the majority of them are male. And some of them are draft doggers. If the Ukrainians start to run from Russia the reception will quite differe…

> If the Ukrainians start to run from Russia the reception will quite different - case in point - the armenias during the genocide. The whole western world sat and watched two decades of persecution that Armenians suffered which ended up becoming a genocide, even Russia who declared herself the protector of Ottoman Orthodox christians didn't move a finger. And those who managed to flee the country were not always wel…

... the whole western world was largely just dandy with oppression and genocide if it wasn't European-looking. Look at what Belgium did to the Congo, or what the UK did to China. Slavery had been verboten for a long while, but killing funny-looking or poor people wasn't so bad if it was out of sight.

Also, in 1915 when the Armenian genocide started, the western world was already locked in a bitter war with the Ottoman Empire. Did you want the infantry sent against Ottoman positions to be carrying banners saying "Okay, now we really mean it!"? Then after the war you had the major players exhausted, denuded of men, materials, and war chest.

Finally, there wasn't really a concept of a 'world cop' like there is in the Pax Americana... but even with the Pax Americana, there's plenty of places it ignores (eg see the five-year Second Congo War, ended this century, 5 million dead).

This picture that you're painting skips an incredible amount of context.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#457

Post by angry_octet »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #430
angry_octet wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, if you give them the IMEI it facilitates them listening to your phone calls and tracking your location. The 'checking for stolen phones' thing seems totally implausible to me.

I'm intrigued that you think that requires an IMEI.

It doesn't require it, but it helps. The IMEI gives away information like manufacturer, device model and rev, and persists across changes in SIM.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#458

Post by angry_octet »

type0 wrote: post #442
angry_octet wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are telling the truth you will be fine. But if you do have a facebook account and you lie about it you could be in trouble (it is an offence to lie to federal agents).

What would you do if you have an account but haven't used it for many years, lost your access to the email that you registered it with and don't remember the password. Are you genuinely a liar then?

If you are telling the truth that you haven't used it in many years then you will be fine -- ultimately. Of course, if you've tweeted/posted from it recently that won't work, and you could end up in detention for lying about it. But on the whole it would be better to take the time to delete that account.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#459

Post by jaddood »

refurb wrote: post #454
deftturtle wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, any treaties or laws ratified by congress have the full legal weight as any national law. They must be upheld by our nation; otherwise, it's unconstitutional.

Yes, but then you're asking countries to police themselves. If following the law is not in the countries best interest, they won't do it unless someone else forces them to.

I think the American mindset in regards to the law and the state itself, especially that set forth by the founding fathers, is that the people are those who make laws and enforce them, so this mindset asks for a revolt to the state as a reply to such acts.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#460

Post by dang »

venomsnake wrote: post #269

We barely stopped the last mostly male refugee wave at Vienna. For you islam may be just a religion but for EE it is dervishme, being second tier humans and the reason the renesaince in Eastern europe started 500 years later. If the refugees were vulnerable it is possible. But the majority of them are male. And some of them are draft doggers. If the Ukrainians start to run from Russia the reception will quite differe…

We've banned this account for conducting religious flamewars on HN. No one is allowed to do this here, and we warned you repeatedly.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13661540 and marked it off-topic.

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