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Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

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181–190 of 344 posts

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#181
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my goodness, this is probably not a native English speaker, or perhaps never heard the expression before... why be so harsh?

Not understanding is fine: assuming that something one doesn't understand must be a slur is not fine.

He didn't assume but presume. And I think that's quite understandable for a non native speaker, given the connotation of the word 'dark'.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#182
post #120
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he is an asshole, but at least Larry Ellison didn't build a company to spy on half the planet like Page & Brin.

He failed to make half the world use his company's products, among other things. BTW I'd appreciate if you gave an example of a highly successful and ethically impeccable company.

Google was ethical under Brin, and it showed when they pulled out of China. None of their units shared data, they had a solid privacy policy. And their main business was search and ads vs. profiling. When Page took over they completely changed course.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#183
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The work Oracle copyrighted (and registered) was their implementation of Java SE as a whole, method bodies and all. Google copied only the interface. If someone copies a paragraph of my novel and claims fair use, I won't get very far on the amount-and-substantiality front by saying "but they basically took all of the part that they copied".

I think it depends if you consider the part that was copied to be a standalone work. The fact that Google is able to create a separate implementation based only on the API design documents seems to suggest that it's a separate work that has meaning unto itself. Would you make the same argument if you copied the entire forward from a novel?

A foreword is a lot more substantial all by itself.

Imagine if they copied the index of a textbook. It's possible to create a complete and compatible textbook using only that structure, but very few people would call it a separate work that has meaning unto itself.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've been told by a contact in their database sales team is that there pipeline for on-premise licenses is drying up quickly but their SaaS business is doing well.

> pipeline for on-premise licenses Sorry for being a grammar nazi, but this one is a serious pet peeve. The singular of "premises" isn't "premise", it's "premises". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premises

TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-premises_software

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#186

Although Oracle denied they bought Sun just to sue Google you have to wonder since they are claiming "billions" in damages and only paid $7.4 billion after IBM dropped their $7.0 billion bid. This purchase was such a seminal moment for the industry you have to wonder what an alternative history would look like if say IBM or Google made the purchase not to mention some dark horses like Amazon or Red hat.

They absolutely bought Sun just to sue. I used to know someone personally involved on the case. Oracle is a horrible company. To be fair, Google's "don't be evil" is also a bunch of crap. They've done their fair share of shady and exploitive things.

Google wasn't evil, at least not before the IPO (which is when I worked there). People took the slogan seriously and based decisions on it. I don't know what happened.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#187
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for startups, on the enterprise space I am yet to see any customer move away from Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 and similar.

When I worked government contracting they had broad goals handed down which they must work toward without it being an explicit requirement. One of these goals? Get on top of an open source only stack for security, cost and future interoperability between other groups. I worked on several projects where they were originally using Oracle or MarkLogic and we transitioned them to Postgres or various other, open source te…

Amazon is in the middle of a top-down migration off of Oracle. despite owning AWS, there are still a huge number of dependencies still running on Oracle.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#188
post #156

I hope google just abandons java altogether if this is gonna continue.

While that could be a great direction I'm not so sure about its implementation. You'd have to create a new set of APIs accessible to another language to work with Android and then convince people to move codebases that have existed for years at this point to a new language.

Granted they can work to make bridges, support both, etc but if the ultimate goal is to transition it's going to take a very, very, very long time.

But I'd love to see what they would come up with for this hypothetical transition :)

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#189
post #162
post #100

Oracle is set to repeat the trajectory of SCO. Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. The "next generation" of developers equals SQL engines with "old and bad", and when forced, it ends up with Postgres anyway. Oracle used to survive in significant part by the support of the "database administrators" class. This layer of support is also becoming thinner…

Maybe for startups, on the enterprise space I am yet to see any customer move away from Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 and similar.

SAP have their own tech in HANNA now of course

Edit: SAP have a DB called HANA, not HANNA as I incorrectly typed

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#190
post #162
post #100

Oracle is set to repeat the trajectory of SCO. Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. The "next generation" of developers equals SQL engines with "old and bad", and when forced, it ends up with Postgres anyway. Oracle used to survive in significant part by the support of the "database administrators" class. This layer of support is also becoming thinner…

Maybe for startups, on the enterprise space I am yet to see any customer move away from Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 and similar.

You simply can't find Postgres DBAs in VA, whereas you can't swing a cat and not hit an Oracle DBA with 10+ years of experience.
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