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Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

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Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#111

Post by orangecat »

niftich wrote: post #59

I wish intent and end result counted more strongly. Andoid's compatibility isn't transitive: once code goes through the Android build pipeline to produce an Android Application it cannot be meaningfully used in the context of Oracle Java; it's a one-way transformation to remain "talent-compatible" with a large pool of Java developers and reuse the base of Java libraries. Projects like OpenJDK and WINE are efforts to…

once code goes through the Android build pipeline to produce an Android Application it cannot be meaningfully used in the context of Oracle Java

Android apps typically have an MVC-like structure where the UI uses Android-specific APIs, but the model is straight Java. As an example, I created an Android game and later decided that I wanted to make a level editor as a desktop Java application. I was able to reuse the model code in Oracle's JDK with no changes, even though I didn't have that use in mind when I originally wrote it.

a full packaged Android App cannot meaningfully run on Oracle JDK

That's true of any platform-specific Java API.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#112

Post by moomin »

iopq wrote: post #82
moomin wrote: post #27

Let's slap a great big IANAL on this before I start: The fair use decision was wrong. It relied on a fundamental misunderstanding of the term transformative where the use of the code was considered rather than merely the implementation. So Oracle has a huge case here. Moreover, practically it doesn't matter. Even if fair use is established in this case, the door has been left wide open to hordes of API copyright trol…

If implementing an interface is against copyright, then every Java program is infringing on Oracle's copyright.

This is a very good point. Oracle (or any other platform owner) may not be suing you for license violations now, but give it time...

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#113

Post by Oletros »

Spivak wrote: post #62
ak4g wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't it be fair use? What exactly is your understanding of what the criteria are?

* Purpose of the use -- Gogole's use wasn't transformative, in fact it was explicitly the opposite. * Nature of the use -- Google could try to argue that their use was for the public benefit, but since the Android platform exists for business interests it probably shouldn't qualify. * Amount and Substantiality -- Google basically took it all. There's no case here. They took not just the signatures but their semantic…

> They took not just the signatures but their semantic meaning

What's the difference between the signature of an API and the semantic meaning?

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#114

Post by [deleted] »

bogomipz wrote: post #48
PunchTornado wrote: post #2

Oracle is at that stage where they didn't invent or do anything right in the last 5 years but try to get money from lawsuits.

This is actually not true. Their cloud offering is doing really well. There's some impressive figures here: http://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/09/15/2016/oracles-c...

[deleted]

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#115

Post by paulddraper »

pikachuisntcool wrote: post #22

Yeah. I got a suggestion. Don't join the industry. And if you're still in college, don't major in Computer Science Edit: Got hellbanned lol. @gregnoire: HN is a giant circlejerk You prolly think this site is so great and intellectual just because it has ycombinator in the URL. Internet comments fundamentally suck @DanBC: Pretty sure I got hellbanned. It's been an hour, still can't make new comments @sjwright: The med…

You could check out the YouTube community. Might be more to your liking.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#116

Post by blub »

throwaway30121 wrote: post #68

Oracle is such a shit company. There are still some great hackers there but Larry Ellison is an asshole, and I don't envy anyone who has to work for him even indirectly. "Left Oracle's Java business in tatters" eh? Where was their mobile OS? Their Dalvik? The wounds to Java have all been self-inflicted. If they succeed in copyrighting the API then where does this leave OpenJDK? Operating at the mercy of Larry fucking…

Maybe he is an asshole, but at least Larry Ellison didn't build a company to spy on half the planet like Page & Brin.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#117

Post by paulddraper »

ryanobjc wrote: post #7

Who has better connections with Trump? Sadly to say, that is not an irrelevant fact anymore. Trump is clearly the kind of president that would reach in to legal rulings he's paid not to like.

What specifically could he do?

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#118

Post by AnthonyMouse »

niftich wrote: post #59

I wish intent and end result counted more strongly. Andoid's compatibility isn't transitive: once code goes through the Android build pipeline to produce an Android Application it cannot be meaningfully used in the context of Oracle Java; it's a one-way transformation to remain "talent-compatible" with a large pool of Java developers and reuse the base of Java libraries. Projects like OpenJDK and WINE are efforts to…

Except that all of the Android code is open source and you could port its runtime or API to any platform you like.

The argument you're making is that Oracle is the only party who should be able to extend Java, despite their also releasing it under an open source license. Which, if they hadn't done, no one would have used it to begin with -- as seems to be the direction things are headed given their recent behavior.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#119

Post by DannyBee »

binarymax wrote: post #110
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #97

I'm really looking forward to the next 5 or 6 years, when all of the software patents created in the 90s and 2000's expire. It can't come soon enough.

If only this had to do with patents. Oracle is claiming breach of copyright - which lasts over a hundred years.

They originally claimed patents too, which is why this keeps going to the federal circuit instead of the 9th, who would have ended this silliness

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#120

Post by nine_k »

blub wrote: post #116
throwaway30121 wrote: post #68

Oracle is such a shit company. There are still some great hackers there but Larry Ellison is an asshole, and I don't envy anyone who has to work for him even indirectly. "Left Oracle's Java business in tatters" eh? Where was their mobile OS? Their Dalvik? The wounds to Java have all been self-inflicted. If they succeed in copyrighting the API then where does this leave OpenJDK? Operating at the mercy of Larry fucking…

Maybe he is an asshole, but at least Larry Ellison didn't build a company to spy on half the planet like Page & Brin.

He failed to make half the world use his company's products, among other things.

BTW I'd appreciate if you gave an example of a highly successful and ethically impeccable company.

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