Live data from Hacker News

Make America Hate Again

avc.com

271–280 of 368 posts

Re: Make America Hate Again

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my point. It's completely unclear. That's why it's such a great slur; there is no clear definition of it, no way to prove it false, and it inspires such negative emotions.

Because context matters there is no one line definition. Not that you care. You will happily argue that MLK was the real racist for making white people let black people eat in their restaurants.

According to you, context matters for murder and surgery as well. Yet there is a clear and unambiguous definition of those terms.

I have no idea what you are trying to argue in your second line. Is that an attempt at a strange ad-hominem attack?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#272
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a Trump voter who voted for him because of his Orlando speech where he was apparently the only candidate to state what actually happened: Islamists were killing gay people. Everyone else apparently didn't talk about either or both of those things.

Because that's not what 'actually happened'. A single young man with a sordid past and complicated relationship with the gay community claimed allegiance to Islamists immediately prior to massacring dozens of people at a gay-centric dance club.

According to Wikipedia, no credible evidence for the "self-hating, closeted gay" narrative has been found by the FBI.

The killer was upset about the US presence in Iraq/Syria and had been preparing the attack for some time, possibly helped by his wife (arrested and charged with helping him). Both were Muslims.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orlando_nightclub_shootin...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/us/politics/noor-salman-a...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com] The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for n…

FYI, you don't need to use an archive, that's still up on his website: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-...

It was restored to the website after some blog software bug

Re: Make America Hate Again

#275
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internal american politics, not of interest. Flagged. If you think the submission is inappropriate for HN, flag and move on, as the guidelines ask. Your criticism of HN being US-centric sounds like you believe it's deliberate and curated. For as much as it is so biased, I think it's an understandable consequence of something that falls out of the demographics of the members and their interests. A lot (not all, though…

Thanks for replying, and for clarifying. HN is, as you are also admitting in a subtle way, anglo-centric. It does not really matter if that's a policy or an emergent property. The consequence is that you attribute more importance to issues related to your cultural area of influence. Readers should be aware about this, and I would like this to be plainly obvious to everybody. I have never implied that this is HN polic…

as you are also admitting in a subtle way, anglo-centric.

I don't think there was anything subtle about it. (I do think anglo-centric is the wrong word to use, unless you mean English-language, or England in particular.)

The consequence is that you attribute more importance to issues related to your cultural area of influence.

That's natural for anyone, to some extent. I'm sure you and I have different interests based on our, um, different interests.

HN usually pretends this not to be the case

This seems to be the crux of it for you. I'm sure there are a couple instances of people saying this, sheerly because of the number of comments that have been posted over the years. Can you come up with support for this statement?

attributes to perception biases any mention of the problem

You'll need to be specific here, because otherwise it's difficult to ascertain whether or not it's perception or not. And, honestly, to move the discussion forward, I don't know how useful anecdotal evidence by you or I is going to be able to do that. You blew past my comment regarding other political submissions flagged, and in the previous thread you reference above, didn't address another's comment that submissions related to the Orlando attacks were flagged as well.

Even your post goes in this direction.

Will you elaborate? I do think there's a lot to perception bias. I check myself for it often. I've gone through threads a number of times, assessing comments for bias one way or another, both to check my own bias and others, when they make comments such as yours.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. This is one of those topics where the Hacker News community has no particular insight, and the comments will surely be the same political cesspool as anywhere else (prove me wrong, please!).

Here's my take: I'm torn between agreeing that these stories don't really belong on HN and thinking that the comments here are the only ones I ever see that still don't immediately devolve into ugly name-calling. I wish I knew of a decent political forum, but I only know of echo-chambers on one side or the other and un-civil cesspools. The politics conversations here aren't great , but they usually have some input fr…

After a couple hours I have to concede the discussion here is more civil than the average. When I wrote my comment there was still a bunch of chaff but now it's been either downvoted, or the replies sparked a decent discussion.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com] The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for n…

How are those the "most prominent Muslim majority countries?" They don't have he largest Muslim populations, etc. They're a list of the most unstable Muslim-majority countries.

Because it's "Muslim majority countries in which Trump doesn't have business ties"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/opinion/who-hasnt-trump-b...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#278
post #210

Regardless of how one feels about the order itself, the fact is, courts are ordering it temporarily suspended, and the Trump administration is ignoring court orders. Legislators are going to airports to see that travelers arriving in their district and being detained are allowed access to counsel, and they're not allowed to meet with the detainees. This is a constitutional crisis. This is not about the right or wrong…

I have faith our process will "manage" this. But I find myself VERY upset reading your comment as well as many other reactions to exe. order How much more can I take? I see signs "whatever it takes to remove trump" that has so much negativity behind it. "Trump" is now a word like being "gay" was growing up. This is quite unhealthy for me. I compare it to second hand smoke before the surgeon generals report.

Two weeks ago, I had faith in the process.

I'm rapidly losing that faith.

Where I live, we have 30,000 Somali immigrants (and some of their US-born citizen children). I'm starting to think of what we would have to do to hide Somalis in our house to protect them from arrest and deportation. And you think you're upset? Why on Earth should I ever have to consider hiding people in my house, here in America?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No.

That's my point. It's completely unclear. That's why it's such a great slur; there is no clear definition of it, no way to prove it false, and it inspires such negative emotions.

Just because some of the people you disagree with are muddleheaded doesn't mean that all of them are. And just because you see an imprecise description of a behavior doesn't mean that behavior does not exist.

"Racism" is a catch-all for the typical set of human behavior directed towards out-groups. This includes distrust, aggression, and in-group signaling. It doesn't matter what defines out-group: dress, gender, skin color, etc, but is generally something tied to identity, something easy to recognize and hard to change. Negative feelings get amplified and applied to all members of the group while positive feelings are suppressed.

In its most extreme form, this permission-to-otherness motivates genocide. Slightly farther down, slavery. Waaaay at the other end it manifests as nervousness around Koreans or something. This is just human nature. There are quite a few things in our nature we no longer casually tolerate in society and work to eliminate. Like ignorance or incest.

But on top of that, context matters. In a situation with heavy power asymmetry, both protagonists may harbor "racist" feelings, but the only attitude that matters to outcome is the attitude of the one with the power. If you feel you're being held to a higher standard, its probably because you are.

"Racism" as used, say, in the 50s, was shorthand for "institutional racism". The game had been rigged against minorities, most especially blacks, to the point that the law told them where to live and eat, who they could and could not marry, etc. This was enforced day to day by the actions of regular people employing regular, everyday racism directed downwards in a situation of power asymmetry.

Since then the institutional stuff has largely been dismantled or covered with tarps, and institutional "fixes" applied, often unevenly and stupidly, but that's also human nature.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you mean by "racist". Can you provide a clear and unambiguous definition? I don't think you can.

You're being willfully obtuse. The points the parent was making were not reliant on a concrete shared definition of 'racism.' Do you want to be part of a discussion, or do you just want the rush of endorphins that contrarianism provides?

I don't think yummyfajitas is.

I don't like Trump but I still agree that racist is now used as a general slur.

Post reply on HN