Make America Hate Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Make America Hate Again

#141

Post by makomk » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

anon1385 wrote: post #62

hueving wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't see how that is not clear Because you're not even using the right word? Discriminating by country is not racist, it's xenophobic. Otherwise everyone who says American tourists are annoying or has a stereotype about Americans is racist by your definition.

Trump’s chief spokesman Sean Spicer just explicitly stated that it's not about countries[1]: >certain areas of the world produce people who seek to do us harm. What's your definition of race? It's a hard thing to define since it doesn't objectively exist, but I think 'people from certain areas of the world' is pretty indistinguishable from what most people mean by race. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/20…

Is it really? For example, the region held by ISIL is indisputably an area of the world which produces people who seek to do us harm, for values of "us" that include America and Europe. Does that make discriminating against people who try and enter the country from there is racism?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#142

Post by attaboyjon » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:45 PM UTC

masterponomo wrote: post #124

In the 1990's in Gwinnett County, GA, you could not enroll your child in school unless he/she had a Social Security number. Non-citizens (including illegal aliens) were exempt from this rule. I considered declaring my children non-citizens as a minor protest, but really didn't care to make an issue of it. Would today's hysterics classify that 1990's policy as hatred, bigotry, and racism agains the (then) largely whit…

If you read the article linked by the AVC author you will think otherwise.

https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence-tempered-incompetence-tr...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#143

Post by talmand » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:45 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #120

tluyben2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard about that as maybe not a native English speaker. What is it?

I've never heard the phrase, and I read the news every day.

It's not a term you would often hear in the news.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#144

Post by kalleboo » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #133

kalleboo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com] The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for n…

however he didn't create the list of the countries that were banned.

How is that relevant? Isn't it even worse if he just took some list of countries he doesn't know the rationale behind their inclusion and banned them?

In tech, this is a problem with things like random half-assed anti-spam lists that people find and adopt with no critical thinking behind.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#145

Post by rayiner » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #95

puranjay wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my ignorance - I'm not American and haven't followed this news - but how is everyone conflating it with "muslims"? I mean, my country has some 140M muslims (India), and my neighbors have some 330M muslims. As a layman, I just read the order and I thought "oh, so it's all war torn countries...but what's Iran doing in there?" not "oh, it's all muslim countries"

Because Trump went to election on "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" [0, donaldjtrump.com] The fact that it was implemented as a ban on citizens from the most prominent Muslim-majority countries (as seen by the eyes of the average American voter, who forgot about Saudi Arabia) could be interpreted as a way for Trump to say he kept his pledge while not being instantly impeached for n…

How are those the "most prominent Muslim majority countries?" They don't have he largest Muslim populations, etc. They're a list of the most unstable Muslim-majority countries.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#146

Post by makomk » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #75

hueving wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they don't believe they are being racist? Closing borders to some Muslim dominated countries while leaving them open to the largest Muslim countries in the world does give the impression that maybe it's not about being Muslim and it's more about nations.

If that were so, we would have to put Saudi on the ban list. Most of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi. Saudi has produced some of the world's most notorious terrorists. Do we suddenly think Saudi society has changed enough that no Saudis are prone to terrorism?

Neither American political party is interested in Saudi Arabia being on any kind of ban list for reasons of US geopolitics, and this has consistently been the case since before 9/11. Remember how difficult it was to get any kind of official confirmation Saudis were involved? Remember how they were one of the big donors to the Clinton Foundation? If not treating Saudi Arabia as a terrorist threat is proof of racism, then almost every US politician is racist (and probably most of the US press too).

Re: Make America Hate Again

#147

Post by exodust » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #44

metafunctor wrote: post #3

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

Quick question: Can babies be racist? I ask because after seeing babies being defined as racist, I have no idea what racism means.

Babies and kids recognize and point out differences in all things as they discover the world around them. Their reaction to a different looking person is not predictable - it could be bemusement, fear, or disinterest. This behavior is not conscientious discrimination - which in adult behavior is racism. Fair enough? That's my thought on it anyway.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#148

Post by Avshalom » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

akjainaj wrote: post #115

mikeash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaining about it is part of dealing with it. If we can mount enough public pressure, maybe we can get this madman impeached before he does something irreversible.

The only way he's getting impeached is if he does something illegal. Taking into account how the spotlight is on him 24/7, I'm sure he won't do anything dumb that could get him impeached. I like Pence much better than Trump, but nope, that's not going to happen.

Well currently the Administration and CPB is defying federal court ruling against the ban.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#149

Post by mjmsmith » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

ashark wrote: post #123

mjmsmith wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe what? I stated an easily verifiable fact.

It's also not very relevant since there's bound to be a strong relation between being relatively stable and prosperous (to say nothing of free, mind) and having trump hotels. I'm no fan of him, but I also don't like "my side" using weak attacks.

The notion that refugees from these seven countries represent a particularly grave threat is nonsense, so we're left to speculate on the real motives. Forty years ago, Jimmy Carter put his peanut farm into a blind trust. Trump still owns properties all over the world. Since he hasn't released his taxes, we have no idea how much money he owes and to whom. It's not at all unreasonable to assume that his decisions will at the very least be affected by his substantial holdings.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#150

Post by zzleeper » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

masterponomo wrote: post #124

In the 1990's in Gwinnett County, GA, you could not enroll your child in school unless he/she had a Social Security number. Non-citizens (including illegal aliens) were exempt from this rule. I considered declaring my children non-citizens as a minor protest, but really didn't care to make an issue of it. Would today's hysterics classify that 1990's policy as hatred, bigotry, and racism agains the (then) largely whit…

Are you implying that asking for SSN was being racist against white people?

More likely than not, they just wanted everyone to have a SSN so they required it for kids. But non-residents cannot have SSNs (even if legally there), so they had to make an exemption for them.

In a way, you can argue the opposite. By making sure that kids have SSNs, they get access to credit and much more, while those without SSNs get stuck in a limbo.