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Make America Hate Again

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111–120 of 368 posts

Re: Make America Hate Again

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Sadly, it seems HN may be getting overrun by Trump apologists. Where's the next good place to be after HN gets gaslighted to not knowing the meaning of words?

I flagged it because 1) I'm tired of so many articles about politics here, 2) the author sounds like a whining brat, 3) if you don't like what's been elected you are going to have to deal with it.

Complaining about it is part of dealing with it. If we can mount enough public pressure, maybe we can get this madman impeached before he does something irreversible.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

I'd start here - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism #1 leads to #3 leads to #2. But there is a lot more to it. Not a simple concept. There is a lot of reading to do if you'd like to understand more. Can provide some links.

I know this is going to come off like a "smart ass" But, I really curious what people think. Can someone be a bigot towards racists? I've heard the argument that the left is intolerant of intolerance and there for hypocritical, which sort of on it's face sounds plausible but seems more like an alt-fact to me. But I can't put my finger of why.

It kind of reminds me of the time I was arguing with my brother and his response was "I don't believe in logic"

How do you deal with people that refuse to argue with logic and facts?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#113
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

Never heard about that as maybe not a native English speaker. What is it?

The Wikipedia article seems good:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

The short version is, it's when someone acts in a "moral" fashion not because they truly believe it, but because they want others to see them as virtuous. Imagine someone attending a protest purely so that their friends can see them protesting, or donating to charity just so they can tell everyone that they donated.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#114
post #102
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

I like it because it includes the implication that you're doing it to ingratiate yourself with people who are already your allies, and passing it off as bravery. That's more specific than insincere.

My point isn't that it's redundant, but that's it's an unproductive thing to say. If you want to insult someone, you might as well come out and use some curse words. Don't hide behind scientific language.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flagged it because 1) I'm tired of so many articles about politics here, 2) the author sounds like a whining brat, 3) if you don't like what's been elected you are going to have to deal with it.

Complaining about it is part of dealing with it. If we can mount enough public pressure, maybe we can get this madman impeached before he does something irreversible.

The only way he's getting impeached is if he does something illegal. Taking into account how the spotlight is on him 24/7, I'm sure he won't do anything dumb that could get him impeached.

I like Pence much better than Trump, but nope, that's not going to happen.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#116
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

Never heard about that as maybe not a native English speaker. What is it?

It's the idea that people hold positions, or claim to hold such positions to signal (show off) how virtuous they are. For instance, say I don't have strong feelings about policy X. However, in my social circle policy X is seen as really bad. I then voice my disagreement with policy X, as a means of "signalling that I am virtuous". I would also potentially proclaim to hold strong disgust over those who agree with the policy, to distance myself from then.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#117
post #2

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. These are labels. No one really knows what "hate" means anymore, but because people are emotional, they see the word, recall what they think of Trump, and think, "yeah, that's hateful!" This is a problem for two re…

Labels are extemely useful and important. You do not cede ground on framing. Even if all you can do is fight to a standstill, it is better than not fighting. Call it what it is. Everywhere you see it.

How many times will this need to be explained?

Calling Trump racist or a Nazi isn't effective. It's preaching to the choir. You don't convince his supporters, and you alienate the moderates that believe Trump is moderate like them.

This is deliberate. Trump deliberately made himself the motte-and-bailey candidate, so both moderates and extremists feel Trump is on their side. He's done that through double-messages and lying, so that the moderates came to believe that Trump was lying on his extreme proposals, and the extremists believed Trump was lying on his moderate proposals. Even his VP choice served that goal.

By calling Trump names, you're setting yourself up to be seen as unfairly strawmanning him, therefore reducing your credibility among the people you most want to convince. You're also setting yourself up to be seen as slyly using words as emotional hand-grenades ("nazi! bigot!") to shut down discourse, rather than actually believing these labels. Through that, you cede the moral high ground, not because you're manipulative, but because your target audience believes you are.

Hillary Clinton paid consultants millions to help her convince the public, and even that didn't work. Throwing around labels it hopeless. Regardless of whether you honestly believe those labels, they don't work anymore. Go on at your peril. I don't know what the solution is. Wider involvement in the political process, repeal of the Electoral College, and redistricting all seem like better ideas. And then, propose a positive vision, not just criticism of the other side.

Edit:

I'll be clearer: you're right. Do you want to be right, or do you want to win?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#118

Trump campaigned on this. America voted for this. Every nation gets the government it deserves.

How does it make sense to speak about an entire nation deserving anything? I didn't vote for this, but I'm getting it just the same.

Meet Collective Responsibility [1] AKA The most harmful idea ever.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility

Re: Make America Hate Again

#119
post #102
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

I like it because it includes the implication that you're doing it to ingratiate yourself with people who are already your allies, and passing it off as bravery. That's more specific than insincere.

Even the term bravery can be contentious. For example some might call a multibillionaire taking a few hours from his Saturday to join a protest at SFO an act of bravery. Others might find it a nice thing to do, but ultimately insulting to conflate with bravery.

But this is HN after all, it's a relatively self selecting and privileged bubble. One man's bravery is another man's minor act of inconvenience.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#120
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

Never heard about that as maybe not a native English speaker. What is it?

I've never heard the phrase, and I read the news every day.
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