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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#201

Post by unscaled »

overcast wrote: post #127
joekrill wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the majority of Americans did NOT vote for this. Even the majority that actually voted didn't vote for this.

Oh boy, not this again. The majority of the electoral college voted for this. That's how both Trump, and Hillary campaigned. To maximize electoral votes. There is no way to predict how it would have turned out, if it was based on popular vote.

Yeah, the legally elected leader, according to the Constitution, is Donald Trump. That still doesn't mean the majority of Americans electing them. Parent was assigning the responsibility for his election to all American citizens, but it's kinda hard to blame the entire American public for supporting these opinions when only 25.4% of them actually cast a ballot for Trump, and even passivity is hard to blame when more people actively opposed Trump than supported him.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#202

Post by sanderjd »

perseusprime11 wrote: post #41

The only way to influence Trump's policy at this time is to be on his side. This may sound weird and very counter to prevailing thought but this may be the only way. Trump already knows he can't win the other side so he will continue to appease his base which will be more detrimental to all of us.

It depends on what you mean by "his side". If you mean the Republican party (which is not really "on his side"), then you're right, they are in the best position to fight him. And they will do so if they hear a groundswell from their constituents that "this is not us". I am cautiously optimistic that this may happen. The condemnation of a number of senators, and probably more importantly, a bunch of Christian organizations, is a good sign.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#203

Post by logandavis »

The reason this is more HN-relevant than your average article on pure American politics is the top comment. Someone suggested to a well-known VC that he could do something about the fact that software he invests in powers the comments on Breitbart, and he said "on it". Something like 5% of Breitbart visits currently come through Disqus. Removing Disqus integration from Breitbart would be a remarkable use of tech industry tools for political activism.

Of course, the fourth Google hit for "Fred Wilson Disqus" is now a post on right-wing reddit clone Voat entitled "F*#%^t Venture Capitalist Fred Wilson who owns Disqus threatening to pull comments from Breitbart website" [0]. So that's a real thing, apparently.

[0] https://voat.co/v/whatever/1603591

Re: Make America Hate Again

#204

Post by notacoward »

mikeash wrote: post #96
_xhok wrote: post #2

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. These are labels. No one really knows what "hate" means anymore, but because people are emotional, they see the word, recall what they think of Trump, and think, "yeah, that's hateful!" This is a problem for two re…

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

And "political correctness" as well. Nowadays the real political correctness and virtue signaling is on the side of those in power. "Prove that you're with us, or you'll be sent to reeducation camp with the others." The way they use these terms is Newspeak all over.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#205

Post by fpig »

pluma wrote: post #139
mikeash wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wikipedia article seems good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling The short version is, it's when someone acts in a "moral" fashion not because they truly believe it, but because they want others to see them as virtuous. Imagine someone attending a protest purely so that their friends can see them protesting, or donating to charity just so they can tell everyone that they donated.

One minor nitpick: in social media the criticism generally applies mostly to mere statements, especially statements of support or outrage over any given emotionally loaded issue. Attending a protest or donating to charity is relatively risky and expensive in comparison to just feigning outrage, retweeting slogans or changing your avatar.

Yeah virtue signaling is mostly a Facebook/Twitter thing.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#206

Post by joshuahedlund »

Corristowolf wrote: post #56

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

It's true that many on "the left" / "the media" were going to freak out even if Trump did exactly the same thing as Obama. But this fact is distracting many honest and sincere conservatives from the more disturbing fact that Trump did not do the same thing as Obama, but in fact did way more in a very reckless manner. (Besides, if it was the same thing Obama did, it wouldn't have required an executive order.)

Stopping new applications from one country for six months is not the same thing as cutting off refugees from all countries who had already passed the process, out of the blue with no warning, stopping people at airports until judges stepped in. halting this process from one country is not the same as cutting off all immigrants from seven countries with no warning, including legal permanent residents who happened to be visiting home. The green card policy was only reversed after already disrupting lots of lives, and the details are all still very unclear and confusing.

Partisanship blinds both sides to the real issues. Many liberals freak out about everything Trump does. Many conservatives, who previously criticized Obama's executive orders, react to this by showing more concern about leftist hysteria regarding abuse of power than the actual extremely concerning abuse of power itself.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#207

Post by yummyfajitas »

Avshalom wrote: post #190
yummyfajitas wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder is the unlawful and premeditated killing of one person by another. Surgery is the treatment of injuries or disorders of the body by incision or manipulation, especially with instruments. Racism is ___? Please fill in the blanks so I can apply your definition to an action/belief together with it's associated context.

No.

That's my point. It's completely unclear.

That's why it's such a great slur; there is no clear definition of it, no way to prove it false, and it inspires such negative emotions.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#208

Post by derrickdirge »

tqwcs wrote: post #63
soneca wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People become sick of this, and vote Trump just to fuck with everyone." This is extremely superficial, arrogant, even offensive to people who voted for Trump. And that is the reason why Trump won IMO. Opposition couldnt understand (not even recognize) the legitimate and valid thoughtful reasons people had to vote for Trump.

I know plenty of people who actually did vote for Trump because they hated Hillary. Only reason given.

I knew a handful of people who simply didn't "like" Clinton, but also felt a need to "throw a wrench into the system." Some of whom I had pegged as relatively progressive.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#209

Post by jbooth »

_xhok wrote: post #102
mikeash wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're banning these other words, can we also ban "virtue signaling"? It basically means "you are being insincere" and is just as unproductive.

I like it because it includes the implication that you're doing it to ingratiate yourself with people who are already your allies, and passing it off as bravery. That's more specific than insincere.

It's funny, because if you express opposition to racism and someone accuses you of virtue signalling, they're basically saying "nobody believes that anti-racist stuff, you're just saying it to look good".

Very illuminating.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#210

Post by beat »

Regardless of how one feels about the order itself, the fact is, courts are ordering it temporarily suspended, and the Trump administration is ignoring court orders. Legislators are going to airports to see that travelers arriving in their district and being detained are allowed access to counsel, and they're not allowed to meet with the detainees.

This is a constitutional crisis. This is not about the right or wrong of the travel ban, not anymore. This is about the Executive branch simply ignoring the Judicial and Legislative branches, and ruling by decree. This is a breakdown of the rule of law.

Within the week, we will see judges order the arrest of Customs/TSA agents, and possibly Trump administration officials, for contempt of court. Will the US Marshals enforce those warrants? Or will they obey Trump's orders and stand down?

If the administration does not stand down, I expect to see elected legislators, and possibly judges, being arrested within the next few weeks. Are you okay with that?

Again, it's not about the right or wrong of the travel ban. It's about whether the president obeys the courts, as required by the Constitution.

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