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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#211

Post by imron »

sharemywin wrote: post #112
selllikesybok wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd start here - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism #1 leads to #3 leads to #2. But there is a lot more to it. Not a simple concept. There is a lot of reading to do if you'd like to understand more. Can provide some links.

I know this is going to come off like a "smart ass" But, I really curious what people think. Can someone be a bigot towards racists? I've heard the argument that the left is intolerant of intolerance and there for hypocritical, which sort of on it's face sounds plausible but seems more like an alt-fact to me. But I can't put my finger of why. It kind of reminds me of the time I was arguing with my brother and his res…

Argue with emotions instead. It will have more swaying power anyway.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#212

Post by KKKKkkkk1 »

Every post of mine on this subject gets downvoted, but here goes. There was a grad student that was detained for 30 hours over the weekend at JFK. The CBP tried to put her on a plane three times, and three times she was taken off the plane because her lawyers intervened. For the whole 30 hours, she was not allowed to see her lawyers. Ultimately they released her. Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

Arbitrary decisions by government bureaucrats is the name of the game in US immigration. That's how it has always been, and that's the way Americans like it. When you ask an American, they will tell you that a US visa is not a right, it's a privilege, and they'd like to make sure that you know that you have no rights all the way through.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#213

Post by pluma »

0xFFC wrote: post #57

Iranian here, I do completely respect his decision , although I am 100% against his decision. The only point I don't get is how Trump is not same Trump before election, He talked about banning Muslim (I was born in Muslim family , although I am not Muslim and I am atheist , I want to clear things out that I am not against ordinary people.), But he literally banned people from countries which have not participated in…

FWIW the list isn't even Trump's, it was copied verbatim from the Obama administration's.

The excuse I often hear from Trump supporters is that the countries on the list are majority-Muslim countries where it's easy to get fake documents. Of course that still doesn't explain why the origin countries themselves aren't on the list.

I'm not an American but I find it incredibly weird that Iran is always seen as a "terrorist state" when actually the only terrorist organisations I could see as being tied to Iran are only concerned with Palestine and only directly pose a threat in Israel (i.e. they operate regionally). I guess the attitude towards Iran is an artefact of the West's close ties to Israel (especially for the US and Germany).

Off topic, but is it true that Iranian citizenship is difficult to get rid of when you try to become citizen of another country? I heard that one of the reason the ban on Iran was especially dire for green card holders and potentially even US citizens was that dual citizenship was basically the norm for people born in Iran.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#214

Post by grzm »

zzleeper wrote: post #52
TorKlingberg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It keeps getting flagged and vouched back and forth.

There is a very aggressive set of users that keep flagging politics here. At this point I don't know if they are Trump supporters, or if they just hate anything but tech on HN.

if they just hate anything but tech on HN.

There have been plenty of political submissions on HN over the past couple of days. There's been plenty of political discussion on HN over the past couple of days. If people are starting to flag political submissions, it may be because there's a limit of how many political submissions there should be. There's a meaningful difference between "anything but tech" (which is a straw man, anyway, as there are plenty of other submissions that aren't tech yet aren't politics) and having so many political submissions and subsequent discussions that end up covering the same ground without any meaningful discourse.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#215

Post by legodt »

pg314 wrote: post #84
jasonlingx wrote: post #37

Trump campaigned on this. America voted for this. Every nation gets the government it deserves.

> Every nation gets the government it deserves. That sounds catchy, but isn't true. Think of all the dictators who came to power after a coup (sometimes backed by foreign powers).

Four times, it was America that installed said dictator...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#216

Post by zzleeper »

masterponomo wrote: post #178
zzleeper wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that asking for SSN was being racist against white people? More likely than not, they just wanted everyone to have a SSN so they required it for kids. But non-residents cannot have SSNs (even if legally there), so they had to make an exemption for them. In a way, you can argue the opposite. By making sure that kids have SSNs, they get access to credit and much more, while those without SSNs get stuck…

No. I am asking those hysterical about recent events to tell me why one form of selective enforcement is accepted as a matter of course, while another is not. I am using this example to show that selective enforcement of laws is not automatically hatred/bigotry/racism, but may be a matter of different policy goals. BTW, aliens can get ITIN's which are similar to SSN's except they are used only for tax matters. That i…

I feel like in your book, having an ID is a bad thing. You would be surprised that this is a very American thing (and which surprised me a lot when I first learned it); no foreigner thinks like that (bar people that don't want to be found).

In fact, you would be surprised at the number of doors that close if you don't have ID or have that crappy ITIN. EG: while I was studying, my friend only had an ITIN on his first year, and it sucked really bad for him. No access to credit, no access to most rentals (because no credit check to run!), etc. Even stuff was more expensive, as I could get the 10% Target discount and he couldn't.

(I was lucky enough to had a SSN from when I worked with a sort-of-diplomatic G4 visa, and it was incredibly useful, and allowed me to get a good credit score, a nice apt close to campus, etc.)

I understand that you are annoyed by having to hand over information about your kids to the govt, and maybe the process of getting them a SSN is a chore. But believe me, both legal and illegal immigrants would love to have SSNs.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#217

Post by daveguy »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #179
panglott wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a racist society: "race" has no valid biological basis, but is a salient social category which impacts social and economic interactions in a wide variety of ways, producing inequalities of privilege and injustice. Whether or not you have bigotry in your heart is beside the point—no one can know such things. When you spend all your energy trying to prove that you are untainted and innocent of racism, it seem…

I don't know what you mean by "racist". Can you provide a clear and unambiguous definition? I don't think you can.

Negative action, thoughts or words based on race. No individual is a stereotype. Treating a racial group as a stereotype is racist.

Edit: fortunately we can legislate the hell out of the actions. It's not that difficult. Though I will give you credit for willful ignorance for the sake of argument. Good rhetoric. A-

Re: Make America Hate Again

#218

Post by derrickdirge »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #50
metafunctor wrote: post #3

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

Racism is making decisions about a person's character based on information about their ethnic background. Usually these decisions negatively impact the subject of the racism, serving to position them as inferior to the decider's race.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#219

Post by humanrebar »

logandavis wrote: post #203

The reason this is more HN-relevant than your average article on pure American politics is the top comment. Someone suggested to a well-known VC that he could do something about the fact that software he invests in powers the comments on Breitbart, and he said "on it". Something like 5% of Breitbart visits currently come through Disqus. Removing Disqus integration from Breitbart would be a remarkable use of tech indu…

> Removing Disqus integration from Breitbart would be a remarkable use of tech industry tools for political activism.

I'm not sure more fracturing of American political discourse would be a beneficial form of 'activism'.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#220

Post by grzm »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #212

Every post of mine on this subject gets downvoted, but here goes. There was a grad student that was detained for 30 hours over the weekend at JFK. The CBP tried to put her on a plane three times, and three times she was taken off the plane because her lawyers intervened. For the whole 30 hours, she was not allowed to see her lawyers. Ultimately they released her. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. Arbitrary decisions…

Every post of mine on this subject gets downvoted, but here goes.

Please don't preface your comments with this. The guidelines explicitly ask you not to.

Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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