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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#151

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

The US is a racist society: "race" has no valid biological basis, but is a salient social category which impacts social and economic interactions in a wide variety of ways, producing inequalities of privilege and injustice.

Whether or not you have bigotry in your heart is beside the point—no one can know such things. When you spend all your energy trying to prove that you are untainted and innocent of racism, it seems like you are missing the point: in a pervasivly racist society, discriminatory behaviors creep in the subconscious of everyone, black/white/antiracist/whatever, and we have to consciously struggle with them. The question is really more about how you interact with broader society racism, not whether you are a naif.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#152

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

> I'm told

> I'm told

> I'm told

You're on HN, so you're obviously capable of research, learning, etc. Why don't you go do your own research and try to understand instead of blindly listening to what you're told and then complaining of being confused?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#153

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

> They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office.

Speaking as a person who had a very, very big problem with Obama bombing civilians in countries we're not even at war with, I'll point out that what Trump is already doing with respect to immigration does go far beyond what Obama did.

Under Obama, there was never any doubt that a green card holder would be permitted reentry as long as they followed the same restrictions that have been in place for decades (e.g. don't get convicted of a felony, don't stay away for more than six months at a time). That is no longer true.

The same applies to someone who holds dual citizenship with the U.K. and Iran. Under the new policy (which is admittedly in flux and is being actively tested in court), a British Iranian cannot enter. That was never an issue before.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vouched it and it went back onto the front page, but it got promptly flagged away again. :-(

Yep. Sadly, it seems HN may be getting overrun by Trump apologists. Where's the next good place to be after HN gets gaslighted to not knowing the meaning of words?

I called this out a few months ago, and got told by a moderator to not employ conspiracy theories.

Yet, week by week, I watch as brand new accounts show up on these types of posts to spout the same short-sighted, toxic talking points that always get vomited out by Trump supporters. They don't say anything related to technology, they always tend to comment on political posts. I've been watching a few accounts and there has been no change in behavior.

This is not a left vs right issue. A lot of these people forgo basic philosophical principles about knowledge, and seem to shun any use of logic and reason (part of the reason you will not get anywhere by engaging them, they simply don't care).

Re: Make America Hate Again

#155
post #74
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he literally banned people from countries which does not participated in any terroristic act (Iran for example) whatsoever. There is a whole Wikipedia page for you to browse.[1] Has Iran directly committed a terrorist act again the United States? No, unless you stretch that definition a bunch. Has it supported/funded terrorism against other Western countries? Absolutely. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and…

First of all, I was talking about people. The USA government (and as far as I can see trump banned based on nationality, not relation to government) did far worse to Iran and most of other countries. In scale, I don't need to provide a link for you. You can find it on the internet. If we want to go this path, (almost) every country in the world should ban the US. From assassinating their leader, changing their govern…

The US used to do many nasty things during the Cold War, in the name of blocking soviet influence, and the overthrow of the Mossadegh was just once. Then again, this was over 60 years ago. If we go by the same measure, Germany and Japan, both of which haven't fought a war for over 70 years, would be banned for life. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US is probably the most benign superpower in history. Yeah, it still went for war in Iraq, but really, countries with far less power have done worse things. We should criticize America when its due, but we should also keep things in proportion. Not everything bad in the world is America's fault.

As for Hezbollah, while I don't think it is primarily a terrorist organization, and they did have the right to fight back against the Israeli army while it was occupying South Lebanon, Hezbollah bombed several non-Israeli civilian targets, often for purely religious reasons (or how else you would describe an attack on a Jewish community center in Argentina?).

Besides, Israel has been out of Lebanese soil for over 15 years, aside from a brief, ill-conceived war (that was nevertheless a response to an unprovoked Hezbollah raid on Israeli soil). During much of that time, Hezbollah did very much the opposite of defending Lebanon, and went out of it's way to provoke Israel to attack Lebanon, knowing that that would gain them legitimacy. This includes targeting Israeli tourists in Bulgaria (I have hard time seeing how this can ever be seen as defensive).

Nowadays, they calmed down on the antisemitic terror front, and it seems like they're mainly occupied with helping Assad massacre his own people (and pretty effective at that). It's hard for me to see anything positive about this group.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#156
If you feel that the tone of this post overstates how bad Trump's order is, I suggest you read the article linked to in the original author's post. It goes into much more detail and gives you a better idea on why what Trump is doing is so bad -

https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence-tempered-incompetence-tr...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banned as an accusation against someone you're arguing against as ad hominem well poisoning? Yes. Otherwise, no.

That's the only way I've ever seen it used.

I was listening to a commentator a few days ago mention how frequently discussions of identity politics are diverted from practical economic issues associated with identity to the virtue of the participants in the conversation.

-----

Person A: I'm facing discrimination in my industry.

Person B: I don't see color. Racists are bad.

Person A: Too bad I don't work for you. How can I deal with what is happening?

Person B: There's going to be more of this with Trump. I hate Trump.

-----

I related to this dynamic a lot.

edit: it was an interview of Asad Haider (editor of viewpointmag.com) on the last Behind The News (Doug Henwood's show) episode.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#158

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

[deleted]

Re: Make America Hate Again

#159

In the 1990's in Gwinnett County, GA, you could not enroll your child in school unless he/she had a Social Security number. Non-citizens (including illegal aliens) were exempt from this rule. I considered declaring my children non-citizens as a minor protest, but really didn't care to make an issue of it. Would today's hysterics classify that 1990's policy as hatred, bigotry, and racism agains the (then) largely whit…

Nah. The barring of perminent residents from reentry is both illegal (evidenced by the fact that a circuit judge had no problem reversing the that portion of the executive order and the subsequent retreat the administration made on the particulars of that issue), a strong break from what has ever been done, by past administrations, something that goes beyond the rhetoric Trump illucidated on the campaign trail, racist though it was, and is, quite simply, un-American.

While I am pleased to see our justice system work vigorously to rollback what it can, the administration showed a strong disregard for the law with these orders. It is unclear yet whether the Deparment of Homeland Security is even complying fully with the stays (the TSA administrator for Dulles refused to meet with a Democratic congressional delegation that went to the airport to make sure the judge's ruling was even being followed).

The Department of Homeland Security's own press release was scary in its own right claiming that they were deciding "at the moment" to comply with the court's ruling.

It's important to remember how much our system relies on tradition to operate effectively. The law/government is not a perfectly reactive state machine. It assumes a certain level of good faith and judement from all the nodes, and the executive is a powerful node in the graph, it has the ability to clog up its edges and render a lot of the other nodes feckless.

I think a lot of what Trump has done has been horrifying, but I, like you have felt that it has been in line with what he campaigned on and legal. In this case I simply have to disagree. This is over the line.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#160

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

Maybe we are not talking about you.

We are talking about people who went around, even here on HN, telling that half the American population were dumb racist haters because they either voted Trump or IIRC just because they respected the election.

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