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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#81

Post by kalleboo »

hueving wrote: post #31

I flagged this, not because I have issues with the political stance, but because it adds absolutely nothing of substance to discuss. It's just a re-iteration that this administration is "hateful", "racist", "bigoted" and whatever else without anything compelling to convince anyone to change or even strengthen their views. I see nothing useful that can come from wasting discussions on this. I'm already regretting spen…

Same here. This is one of those topics where the Hacker News community has no particular insight, and the comments will surely be the same political cesspool as anywhere else (prove me wrong, please!).

Re: Make America Hate Again

#82

Post by selllikesybok »

hueving wrote: post #31

I flagged this, not because I have issues with the political stance, but because it adds absolutely nothing of substance to discuss. It's just a re-iteration that this administration is "hateful", "racist", "bigoted" and whatever else without anything compelling to convince anyone to change or even strengthen their views. I see nothing useful that can come from wasting discussions on this. I'm already regretting spen…

Stating facts is worth doing.

Even if others want to disagree with them.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#83

Post by csears »

Corristowolf wrote: post #56

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

Obama barred access to the Visa Waiver Program for "High Risk" countries. This was not an outright ban on immigration, it just eliminated access to a "fast lane" for people who needed to visit the US for 90 days or less.

Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#84

Post by pg314 »

jasonlingx wrote: post #37

Trump campaigned on this. America voted for this. Every nation gets the government it deserves.

> Every nation gets the government it deserves.

That sounds catchy, but isn't true. Think of all the dictators who came to power after a coup (sometimes backed by foreign powers).

Re: Make America Hate Again

#85

Post by selllikesybok »

hueving wrote: post #34
metafunctor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No attempt to ridicule here, just an attempt to convey a concept in one word. Gaslighting, I think, means a kind of manipulation where seeds of doubt are gradually sown, questioning the targets' perception and sanity. I still think it's a great word to use if someone tries to claim that banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist.

Yes, and labeling behavior as that concept is an appeal to ridicule. You are classifying something you disagree with as something designed to mess with your perception of reality rather than actually intellectually engaging it. >banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist Because it's not in most cases (unless a particular race only comes from that set of banned countries). It's xenophobic. Please use t…

Racist xenophobia, to be extra accurate.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#86

Post by metalon »

Corristowolf wrote: post #56

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

They are not simply banning new foreigners from entering the country (which alone would be bad enough, imho), but also many green card holders who were legal residents and now face an uncertain future. Also, does "In addition, the United States should not admit those [...] who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation" apply to everyone? That would mean bad news for Mike Pence, among others

Re: Make America Hate Again

#87

Post by kalleboo »

shaqbert wrote: post #10

Why don't get is why there is so little discussion of systematic governance system shortcomings in the US. Gerrymandering, a primary system empowering extreme positions, the role of money in politics, the extreme level of noise and lack of signal in the media, house and senate rules enabling obstructionism, lack of clarity in the constitution (e.g. senate being able to stall a supreme court judge for a year), etc. As…

Those are certainly the most interesting discussions, but they both require great nuance (which the US political climate has long ago rejected) and great consensus (since the flaws are in the very constitution where the amendments are by design difficult to push through).

As a non-American, I've always thought the best path forward was to focus on states rights. Progressive states along the coasts could should the way forward, and the rest of the country would eventually catch up (imagine the EU if Sweden had to wait on countries like Poland and Italy to implement their desired policies?). But there's a massive medial focus on federal politics (the executive branch President in particular), and everyone wants to save everyone else in the nation from their perceived oppressions...

Re: Make America Hate Again

#88

Post by calibraxis »

metafunctor wrote: post #3

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

I believe them when they say it! Something makes people refuse to look through Galileo's telescope. (Spent his life under house arrest.) Pushed Turing to suicide for homosexuality. To aggressively deny global warming.

And that's ok, they're not the audience. They'll tell you that you won't convince anyone; hopefully that discourages you from success.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#89

Post by towit »

0xFFC wrote: post #57

Iranian here, I do completely respect his decision , although I am 100% against his decision. The only point I don't get is how Trump is not same Trump before election, He talked about banning Muslim (I was born in Muslim family , although I am not Muslim and I am atheist , I want to clear things out that I am not against ordinary people.), But he literally banned people from countries which have not participated in…

Canada welcomes you.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#90

Post by Lawtonfogle »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #50
metafunctor wrote: post #3

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

The second half of your last sentence is the key to the issue, IMO. People calling things racist, and yet those who agree with the things being called racist seeing those name calling ignoring similar behavior weakens the concept of bigotry.

My favorite example of this is the legal system. The legal system is racist against blacks and Hispanics because it is harder on them. The legal system is also sexist against women because it is easier on them. When someone sees both of these views together, the entire concept of bigotry is called into question.

And it's becoming a self parody as well. People are now being called transphobic for being unwilling to have sex with a transsexual they aren't attracted to. A gay guy who is only attracted to people with a punishment is now a bigot... what? Yeah, that view isn't by any means common yet, but it has been appearing online for a while now.

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