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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#31

Post by hueving »

I flagged this, not because I have issues with the political stance, but because it adds absolutely nothing of substance to discuss. It's just a re-iteration that this administration is "hateful", "racist", "bigoted" and whatever else without anything compelling to convince anyone to change or even strengthen their views.

I see nothing useful that can come from wasting discussions on this. I'm already regretting spending the time I have in this comments section, it's a wasteland of blind posturing and inane flaming that I hope others avoid as well.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#32

Post by hueving »

mschulze wrote: post #29
hueving wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know what "hate" means Do you though? If you can't distinguish the difference between fear of the unknown and hatred, then you are fortunate enough to never have experienced hatred. Since everyone likes to compare Trump and Hitler. Hitler hated the Jews, which resulted in genocide . I've talked to several people who support what he did with the ban and it has nothing to do with hating Muslims or immigrants and its…

The consequence of a child not being allowed to drive and not allowing human to enter a country where they maybe have lived for years are a bit different though.

They are, but the motivation is the same. The motivation is what I'm highlighting (hate vs. fear).

Re: Make America Hate Again

#33

Post by hueving »

metafunctor wrote: post #26
_xhok wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, everyone knows racism is obviously bad. What we're back to is having to prove that what the opponent is proposing actually constitutes racism. One argument I hear is that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the West's values, that immigrants from those countries don't integrate well, and that the dangerous ideas within Islam aren't limited to radical fundamentalists. Under this view, a temporary ban is not n…

I agree. Labelling all people from entire countries as not eligible to enter your country is, by definition, racist. I don't see how that is not clear. I thought it was clear. I thought people defending these executive orders think it's all fine and good to basically blacklist entire countries and every person on earth who is a citizen of those countries.

>I don't see how that is not clear

Because you're not even using the right word? Discriminating by country is not racist, it's xenophobic.

Otherwise everyone who says American tourists are annoying or has a stereotype about Americans is racist by your definition.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#34

Post by hueving »

metafunctor wrote: post #30
hueving wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>gaslighted Let's not use that term here. It's just an appeal to ridicule dressed up as something meaningful.

No attempt to ridicule here, just an attempt to convey a concept in one word. Gaslighting, I think, means a kind of manipulation where seeds of doubt are gradually sown, questioning the targets' perception and sanity. I still think it's a great word to use if someone tries to claim that banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist.

Yes, and labeling behavior as that concept is an appeal to ridicule. You are classifying something you disagree with as something designed to mess with your perception of reality rather than actually intellectually engaging it.

>banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist

Because it's not in most cases (unless a particular race only comes from that set of banned countries). It's xenophobic. Please use the correct terms if you are going to level such strong accusations to such large numbers of people you don't seem to have any understanding of.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#35

Post by metafunctor »

hueving wrote: post #33
metafunctor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Labelling all people from entire countries as not eligible to enter your country is, by definition, racist. I don't see how that is not clear. I thought it was clear. I thought people defending these executive orders think it's all fine and good to basically blacklist entire countries and every person on earth who is a citizen of those countries.

>I don't see how that is not clear Because you're not even using the right word? Discriminating by country is not racist, it's xenophobic. Otherwise everyone who says American tourists are annoying or has a stereotype about Americans is racist by your definition.

Ah, of course. Thanks, and sorry. In my native language we don't have a separate word for xenophobia. I seem to forget that all too easily.

If you replace "racism" with "discrimination" (or where applicable, "xenophobia") my comments here may make more sense.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#36

Post by kyrre »

mjmsmith wrote: post #28
hueving wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they don't believe they are being racist? Closing borders to some Muslim dominated countries while leaving them open to the largest Muslim countries in the world does give the impression that maybe it's not about being Muslim and it's more about nations.

Nations without Trump hotels.

do you really believe this? honest question.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#39

Post by FloatingGhost »

metafunctor wrote: post #26
_xhok wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, everyone knows racism is obviously bad. What we're back to is having to prove that what the opponent is proposing actually constitutes racism. One argument I hear is that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the West's values, that immigrants from those countries don't integrate well, and that the dangerous ideas within Islam aren't limited to radical fundamentalists. Under this view, a temporary ban is not n…

I agree. Labelling all people from entire countries as not eligible to enter your country is, by definition, racist. I don't see how that is not clear. I thought it was clear. I thought people defending these executive orders think it's all fine and good to basically blacklist entire countries and every person on earth who is a citizen of those countries.

> Labelling all people from entire countries as not eligible to enter your country is, by definition, racist.

Nope, this assumes that the country is racially homogeneous

Re: Make America Hate Again

#40

Post by ThomPete »

metafunctor wrote: post #15
chronicy6 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what those words mean too. That's why I voted for Trump in San Francisco.

Would you care to elaborate, because I don't understand. Usually people would like the society in general to have less bigotry, hatred, and racism. Do you think Trump will help us get there, and how?

Well first you need to establish that Trump are actually doing those things.

This is the primary issues once you actually dig into things he might just as well just be nationalist which means occupied with US citizens not world citizens.

From the perspective of a nationalist the extreme measures Trump have taken are simply to secure the country.

From the perspective of a globalist he is destroying the very foundation of the global society. None of those are wrong, they are just different perspectives equally valid.

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