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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#241

Post by cderwin »

rand77763 wrote: post #169
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

The POV of the government should be nothing more than the POV of the people.

There is no POV of "the people". A bunch of individuals comprise the people, and some of those individuals also comprise the government. But "the people" as a group do not have a POV.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#242

Post by soundwave106 »

notpc wrote: post #18

Manning indiscriminately leaked tons of diplomatic cables, as part of a personal vendetta against the US Army. It is without contention that the vast majority of the leaked cables revealed nothing that anyone considers wrongdoing. This wasn't the act of a whistle blower. It was the cowardly act of someone who put their own petty fantasies ahead of their solemn duty to protect the information they were entrusted with…

The "pandering to the left" comment is in my opinion a bad political assumption.

If you look at previous opinion polls on Manning (see: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/24/manning-sentence-po...), the opinion seems less to fall on traditional "left / right" lines. If anything, there is some bias towards younger people being more approving of Chelsea Manning compared to older people.

The demographics in the Manning polls actually are very similar to other tangentially related topics in United States polls, eg how people feel about Snowden and how people feel about (edit for clarity) massive government cyber surveillance.

I personally think the decision is more than just pandering, but if Obama is pandering to someone, he is pandering to the youth.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#243

Post by DanBC »

akjainaj wrote: post #160
maxerickson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president is granted the power to pardon by the same document that establishes the separation of powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_Stat... It's not a super long document. http://constitutionus.com/

I am not American so I don't know the constitution of the US. It was an innocent question but people here seemed not to like it somehow.

I suspect some of the downvotes are because you use the word "guy". Manning is a woman.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#244

Post by rtkwe »

rand77763 wrote: post #169
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

The POV of the government should be nothing more than the POV of the people.

That's a shay position given how wrong a majority of the country has been at various times in history. Forced school desegregation was wildly unpopular in a lot of the country (even the north) but it was the right thing to do, some issues shouldn't be left to the whims of a populace. It also treats the view of the people as a singular entity when it's vastly fractured and multifaceted.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#245

Post by davidw »

mhurron wrote: post #95
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Manning dumped a whole slew of stuff without any checking or vetting or anything else. Some of the stuff I saw in relationship to Italy, for instance, was just diplomatic personnel airing "what they really thought" about Silvio Berlusconi. These comments are the kind of thing that didn't do anyone any good to have dumped in public.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#246

Post by cderwin »

bmuon wrote: post #171
ishields wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now, "They" does not imply any gender and is appropriate to describe any person

Sorry, non-native speaker here. But wouldn't "they" apply when you don't know when the gender of the person? In this case you do know.

From a grammatical perspective it should be noted that "they" is plural. It is gender-neutral, but should only be used when referring to multiple people. The correct gender-neutral singular pronoun is "he or she".

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#247

Post by jmcdiesel »

MrMember wrote: post #225
hackuser wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obama is trying to leave a positive view of the Democratic legacy with this lasting memory. It helps people forget How do you know what Obama's motive is? Were you at the meetings? Did you read the memos? Do you have a brain-to-brain interface or have you hacked his Blackberry? Should he do nothing good or positive, so that you don't suspect him of manipulating people?

Obama has done very little (anything?) to support whistleblowers or an open and transparent government in the eight years he has been President. It's hard not to be skeptical of such an uncharacteristic move days before he's set to leave office.

Its not at all hard...

This is the time for doing these things... things like this that have the potential to upset a lot of people you rely on... but he wont be relying on them anytime soon... thats kinda where the "tradition" of pardons, etc at the last few days of term comes from.. there is next to no backlash for the president if hes only in office for a few more days

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#248

Post by [deleted] »

rthomas6 wrote: post #72
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

[deleted]

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#249

Post by dragonwriter »

Cozumel wrote: post #237

I think having your mind fractured and been forcibly turned into a 'woman' as a deterrent to future whistleblowers is a living hell, that's a lifetime of punishment even when he's out of jail.

> I think having your mind fractured and been forcibly turned into a 'woman' as a deterrent to future whistleblowers is a living hell

Manning's gender dysphoria is not a product of punishment for the leaks, it was a condition which existed earlier (and for which the response in the Army environment was part of the source of general alienation that Manning was experiencing at the time of the leaks.)

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#250

Post by DanBC »

and0 wrote: post #147
ishields wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now, "They" does not imply any gender and is appropriate to describe any person

I thought the same thing but there's no way a native English speaker would use "they" in that context otherwise. It made me have to go back and see if Wikileaks in general was being referenced.

I'm a native English speaker. I tend to use "they", and I would have used it in that sentence.

Not all native English speakers got an American English education.

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