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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#221

Post by etjossem »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #216
etjossem wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chelsea Manning brought us video footage of Baghdad airstrikes with civilian and press casualties. The motive was clear-cut: she wanted to expose hidden truths about the war in Iraq that might convince the American people it was no longer worth the cost. That's the definition of a whistleblower. "[She] didn’t like that people were being killed, particularly the citizens, innocent people," Campbell said. "I remember u…

>Her conscience could not bear to keep these human rights abuses secret Manning had no idea what was in any of the information being leaked. This is not the actions of a conscientious objector. The amount of re-writing history going on here is absurd.

> no idea what was in any of the information being leaked

After watching journalists get annihilated by an Apache missile strike, there is not a lot of room for confusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#222

Post by colechristensen »

mhurron wrote: post #95
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Snowden released a large volume of information to well qualified journalists who very carefully combed through the data to find the things most relevant and important for the American public to know. Information that was legitimately classified and had no whistleblowing value simply wasn't released.

Manning released a large volume of information to the public en masse with no regard to it's whistleblowing value. Some of that information was dangerous and harmful.

Manning's battering ram is much different than Snowden's scalpel, even though their base motivations had a lot in common. Snowden knew what he was doing and did it with great care and consideration. Manning was suffering from some serious mental health issues and did something foolish with questionable value at best.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#224

Post by dragonwriter »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #150
wbl wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it's Obama recognizing that someone with mental health issues the military is ill-equipped to address who has been in custody for seven years has been punished enough. Lawfare is not a bastion of liberalism, but has suggested enough is enough. Let's save the life sentences for the Walkers.

"Or it's Obama recognizing that someone with mental health issues the military is ill-equipped to address who has been in custody for seven years has been punished enough." Playing Devil's Advocate: if this is the case, why did it take until the last week of his tenure as President for him to do this? No, this smells of "legacy". Obama could have done this years ago.

> Playing Devil's Advocate: if this is the case, why did it take until the last week of his tenure as President for him to do this?

Because the petition on which action was taken was filed by Manning in November, and the review that goes into making the determination takes nonzero staff and Presidential time, and wasn't the sole thing the White House was doing.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#225

Post by MrMember »

hackuser wrote: post #82
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

> Obama is trying to leave a positive view of the Democratic legacy with this lasting memory. It helps people forget How do you know what Obama's motive is? Were you at the meetings? Did you read the memos? Do you have a brain-to-brain interface or have you hacked his Blackberry? Should he do nothing good or positive, so that you don't suspect him of manipulating people?

Obama has done very little (anything?) to support whistleblowers or an open and transparent government in the eight years he has been President. It's hard not to be skeptical of such an uncharacteristic move days before he's set to leave office.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#226

Post by RubenSandwich »

headcanon wrote: post #13

how much you wanna bet that Julian Assange will conveniently forget his agreement to be extradited if Manning gets pardoned? https://www.yahoo.com/news/assange-agrees-extradition-us-rel...

I would not be surprised if he does not honor that as the incoming president will likely be even harsher on an Assange trial then an Obama presidency would be.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#227

Post by [deleted] »

djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

[deleted]

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#229

Post by HerraBRE »

pvg wrote: post #183
HerraBRE wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "collateral murder" video, which was based on Manning's leaks, is really quite chilling and definitely shows wrong doings that were then covered up by the government. There was more, but this was the most visual/memorable. I suggest you turn your scepticism to 11 and go watch it, see if you still feel the same way. https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ (warning: if watching civilians, journalists and children b…

The incident had been reported and covered by the press, there was no 'government cover up'. The new bit was the video itself.

Government stonewalling then, the government wasn't exactly forthcoming. Reuters had been fighting for information for quite some time.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#230

Post by ishields »

ghostly_s wrote: post #170
ishields wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now, "They" does not imply any gender and is appropriate to describe any person

In this context, it reads as a refusal to accept usage of her preferred pronoun.

That's a valid interpretation, but it's based on assumptions. Personally I didn't even notice the use of "they" vs "he" or "she" since it's not really relevant to the discussion. In fact, OP has clarified that he/she used "they" only because they were unsure if gender changes apply retroactively since at the time of the leaks, manning identified as a "he"
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