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Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#71

Post by mikeash »

yessql wrote: post #37
mikeash wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Model 3 is going to blow through those subsidies within a year of shipping. They're only available for a limited number of cars, then they go away. Tesla clearly thinks that they're viable without the tax credit.

Yes, this is important. Tesla could blow through all of the credits in 2018. Tesla could technically benefit from the EV tax credit being cancelled after that, since its products would no longer qualify, but the other OEMs that have sat on the sidelines waiting for cheaper batteries would not be able to jump in and take advantage of having a subsidy available to them, but not to Tesla, Nissan, and GM that would have…

The benefit to competitors would be limited, since as soon as they created a product that sold in high volumes, they'd use up their subsidy too.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#72

Post by grzm »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #69
lingben wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

> it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stands for... > he only truly cares about himself and only thinks about what will benefit him... and his penchant for "clean" coal is crystal clear Which is it? It's hard to pin down what he stands for, or is it crystal clear?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. One can be notoriously difficult to pin down in general and yet clear on a few things.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#73

Post by joering2 »

lingben wrote: post #35
tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

It will be very interesting to watch the country for next few years.

The biggest difference between Obama and Trump is that Obama was just working for some law firm and happened to be a senator from Illinois when his movement took off. He didn't have any strong grudges against people or companies more than me or you. Trump is different. He once purchased a property next to airport for the whole purpose of suing that airport for the noise levels. After he lost 2 times, he sold the property. This is someone that will go after you time and time just because he can shell out sometimes not his money to use court system against you. When he settles, he call it "winning", when others settle he call them "losing".

I don't see this administration having large scandals like Obama did where clearly his buddies are making billions of dollars either in solar or healthcare, etc. I think Trump will make some progress for USA with his business experience, but unless he can change 180 overnight (doubt), I'm sure we will see a few scandals where he uses his presidential position and/or government apparatus such as IRS/DEA/FBI to go after those selected few individuals/companies who he couldn't digest over the years... that I can bet on!

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#74

Post by ScottBurson »

Spivak wrote: post #43
cossatot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably cheaper for government and taxpayers in the long run to for the govermnent to aid in the development of markets for alternative energy that can reduce the negative externalities of pollution, the international control of conventional fuel sources, and ease the transition from finite nonrenewables as supply diminishes, than to sit it out completely and deal with the aftermath. Not many private investors…

Serous question, why not just fund/subsidize the research and development until it's actually competitive? Then when it's ready to bring to market give them a huge investment for the infrastructure to combat the high barrier to entry in return for something we want as a society, like say, a cap on battery costs or an open charging protocol. Are electric cars, as they currently stand, really so environmentally friendl…

> why not just fund/subsidize the research and development until it's actually competitive?

Because R&D isn't all that's needed. It takes time to grow an industry. It's one thing to project future economies of scale, quite another to demonstrate that those economies are already being realized.

IIRC, battery prices are on track to fall by another 50% by 2023 or so. That will be a game-changer, and there's no way it could have happened through R&D alone.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#75

Post by DefaultUserHN »

lingben wrote: post #35
tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

>...it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stands for...

He was pretty clear about it. He's for wind energy, just not on his golf course.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#76

Post by stcredzero »

terravion wrote: post #26
vvanders wrote: post #22

I think Tesla will do okay, they've got a solid product that stands on its own. What I'm worried about is rooftop solar tiles. One of the thing that can make it cheaper than a traditional roof is that the whole thing will qualify for solar subsidies. If that goes away it could make things incredibly difficult for Solar City.

I guess it depends on whether you think that net metering is a subsidy and whose eyes are beholding the payments. Those tiles are generating electricity, why shouldn't they get paid same as large generators?

I don't think that's the critical subsidy. My understanding is that with a solar roof, your whole solar freaking roofway is subject to the solar installation subsidies.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#77

Post by iamcreasy »

lingben wrote: post #35
tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

Trump also said Wind farms are bad because it kills birds.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#78

Post by DefaultUserHN »

mbostleman wrote: post #54
flukus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stands for because it really depends on the day and time and situation since he only truly cares about himself and only thinks about what will benefit him. I think it's more that he knows his audience. He isn't going to talk up renewable in coal mining areas for instance. He isn't talking to the media, he's talking around them.

Agreed. I don't think he has any discernible political position. That would be too constraining. He's a salesmen and a deal maker. He's going to say what he needs to get support, then make hay while the sun shines. He and Musk will get along fine. They're peers. If there's a way to make money, increase economic growth, or otherwise trade the currency of Musk's brand, Trump will totally use it imo. Then he'll explain…

His positions were pretty clear. He's for all forms of energy, including coal. Wind too, but just not around his golf courses.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#79

Post by saretired »

merc285 wrote: post #63

More typical anti-trump propaganda. Tesla is a private company. Trump supports free market and private business. He even went as far to say he wants to improve our efforts in space. This is also from the Washington Post. The mainstream media has zero credibility at this point.

Trump received a 40-year, $120 million full tax abatement from NYC for the Grand Hyatt (Newsweek 6/17/90) . He sought a residential tax abatement for Trump Tower, an abatement designed for low- and middle-income housing (NYT, 8/6/1983), and an abatement for another luxury tower, Trump Palace, and for Trump International Hotel (NYT 7/17/94). He sought a $356 million low-interest loan from the federal government for the West Side Yards, received a $34 million tax abatement in Florida, and had the assessed value of a Las Vegas property lowered from $180 million to $8.6 million (LA Times, 5/11/2011).

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#80

Post by DefaultUserHN »

_ea1k wrote: post #61
tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

Yes, he has said things that are very pro-renewable. Even his pro-coal stance is pro "clean" coal. A "clean" requirement for coal-based energy sources will effectively make it less economically viable relative to other energy sources. Of course, he has also said some stupid things that are very anti-renewable when he has been in front of audiences that wanted to hear that (some parts of his base). Which Donald Trump…

>Which Donald Trump is real Donald Trump?

The one that wants all forms of energy? Because that would make the most economic sense. Let the market compete.

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