Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#61

Post by _ea1k » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

Yes, he has said things that are very pro-renewable. Even his pro-coal stance is pro "clean" coal. A "clean" requirement for coal-based energy sources will effectively make it less economically viable relative to other energy sources.

Of course, he has also said some stupid things that are very anti-renewable when he has been in front of audiences that wanted to hear that (some parts of his base).

Which Donald Trump is real Donald Trump? We will find out in time.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#62

Post by loourr » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

This is based on completely the wrong premise, Tesla is an unsubsidized car company. Even if the Solar City deal goes through and the value goes to $0 within a year Tesla will still be a great thriving company.

Not only is Tesla a shinning example of American manufacturing (a main Trump tenant), they create cars that are better and more performant then competing gasoline cars, they do it at much higher margins.

Tesla is hopping to produce about 500k cars within 2 years while the average automobile manufacture produces about 10MM cars per year. And they plan to do it at a 20-30% margin.

Even if gas prices go down by 75% they would then only match the price of fueling a Tesla, which in itself would be an incredible feat given how subsidized oil already is.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#63

Post by merc285 » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:44 PM UTC

More typical anti-trump propaganda. Tesla is a private company. Trump supports free market and private business. He even went as far to say he wants to improve our efforts in space.

This is also from the Washington Post. The mainstream media has zero credibility at this point.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#64

Post by _ea1k » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:45 PM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #2

It talks about Tesla, but I'm not really sure how much oil prices can really decline. I would be more worried about SolarCity and solar in general. Trump says he wants to expand coal, nat gas, etc.. and cheaper prices for those (and perhaps discontinuation of credits for renewable energy) would discourage new solar installations. What would be really sad is if this policy change causes bankruptcies in renewable energ…

I think that the lack of competition for consumers in the energy sector will reduce the impact on solar. I don't expect utility companies to necessarily pass along their savings (if there are any) to consumers.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#65

Post by f_allwein » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #2

It talks about Tesla, but I'm not really sure how much oil prices can really decline. I would be more worried about SolarCity and solar in general. Trump says he wants to expand coal, nat gas, etc.. and cheaper prices for those (and perhaps discontinuation of credits for renewable energy) would discourage new solar installations. What would be really sad is if this policy change causes bankruptcies in renewable energ…

Interestingly, much the same thing happened in Germany in 2010 - a new chancellor called Merkel decided to revise her predecessor's decision to exit nuclear power. This led to massive phobic protests and upheaval among green energy companies. The decision was only revised after Fukushima, some 6 months later.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/06/germany-extend...

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#66

Post by rayiner » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:53 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #52

tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

> He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: He has a professional climate change denier[1] being trial-ballooned to run the EPA. I think of all the question marks about Trumps seriousness and commitment to specific policy areas (and there are lots -- the guy is a blank slate), environmental issues are the least uncertain. The guy is a straight up head-in-the-sand opponent of anything that looks or…

Trump is bad for the environment (then again, all Presidents have been bad for the environment--nobody has the balls to do what needs to be done), but there are some bright sides. If you look at environmental harms in dollar terms, climate change isn't actually the most harmful thing: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/External_costs_of_coal.

Per kilowatt hour of coal-powered electricity, air pollution generates about three times more environmental externalities than the climate change effect. The effects of mining in Appalachia is significantly more harmful too.

Climate change is a sexy issue, but health damage from air pollutants tends to cause more actual health damage. Water pollution is a bigger issue too: http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/toi-editorials/very.... Ideally we'd address all three, but as a practical matter no U.S. President will take more than symbolic steps towards fixing climate change anyway.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#67

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:53 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #59

flukus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stands for because it really depends on the day and time and situation since he only truly cares about himself and only thinks about what will benefit him. I think it's more that he knows his audience. He isn't going to talk up renewable in coal mining areas for instance. He isn't talking to the media, he's talking around them.

> I think it's more that he knows his audience. He isn't going to talk up renewable in coal mining areas for instance. That's what makes this so interesting, his audience is now the whole country and now he actually has to do something.

[deleted]

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#68

Post by artursapek » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:53 PM UTC

lingben wrote: post #35

tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

> he only truly cares about himself

that's one hell of a claim

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#69

Post by hoorayimhelping » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:54 PM UTC

lingben wrote: post #35

tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

>it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stands for...

>he only truly cares about himself and only thinks about what will benefit him... and his penchant for "clean" coal is crystal clear

Which is it? It's hard to pin down what he stands for, or is it crystal clear?

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#70

Post by linkregister » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 11:54 PM UTC

_ea1k wrote: post #61

tlack wrote: post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

Yes, he has said things that are very pro-renewable. Even his pro-coal stance is pro "clean" coal. A "clean" requirement for coal-based energy sources will effectively make it less economically viable relative to other energy sources. Of course, he has also said some stupid things that are very anti-renewable when he has been in front of audiences that wanted to hear that (some parts of his base). Which Donald Trump…

Forgive me for my skepticism, but "clean" coal is now the preferred nomenclature by most coal proponents, including those who have no intention of incurring a 30% efficiency tax on coal consumers. It is as meaningful as "natural" is on a food label.