All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware • Hacker News Board

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#121

Post by CamperBob2 » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:19 AM UTC

PacketPaul wrote: post #69

CamperBob2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great that they're taking the big risks needed to move the industry forward, and not letting the lawyers run the company. But some of the risks they're taking are just completely stupid and unnecessary, such as calling their assisted cruise control "Autopilot." That's like waving the proverbial cape at the proverbial bull.

Pilot here. Airplanes have autopilot. While on autopilot you are still expected to be monitoring the flight and take control at a moments notice. Autopilot does not allow the pilot to take a nap or go in the back and party with the flight attendants. Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Ask 99 out of 100 people who aren't pilots, but who might be Tesla customers, and see if they can recite what you wrote below:

While on autopilot you are still expected to be monitoring the flight and take control at a moments notice. Autopilot does not allow the pilot to take a nap or go in the back and party with the flight attendants.

And how do you know all that? Because you were trained accordingly.

I'm not saying Tesla shouldn't offer the feature in their cars. I'm saying they shouldn't have named it after a feature that people think allows pilots to party with the flight attendants.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#122

Post by will_hughes » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:19 AM UTC

weaksauce wrote: post #43

niftich wrote: post #13

Is this a formal model-year revision/refresh, or just a midyear 'minor revision' thing (despite being a major revision?) Are old models retrofittable? Will this hurt the resale value of existing Teslas that have the last generation hardware? Is there an industry-standard (or governmental) safety test that these autonomous systems have to go through to evaluate their efficacy and performance in different scenarios? (e…

The old models actually had pretty weak sensors which indirectly caused the death of that one guy who used autopilot and t-boned a trailer. > Eight surround cameras provide 360 degree visibility around the car at up to 250 meters of range. Previously that was just one camera mounted in front of the rear view mirror > Twelve updated ultrasonic sensors complement this vision, allowing for detection of both hard and sof…

> The old models actually had pretty weak sensors which indirectly caused the death of that one guy who used autopilot and t-boned a trailer.

Saying it was the sensors that caused the guys death is like saying it was the powerstation that generated the electricity that ran the car causing his death.

He was told, repeatedly, to keep his hands on the steering wheel and to watch the surrounding environment. He even apparently understood the limitations of the system, having recorded a number of scenarios (many of which are situations where AP shouldn't have been engaged anyway) where the car's ability to handle the situation was marginal at best.

So, him deciding to (apparently) watch a video on a tablet while driving down a public highway isn't really the fault of the AP system.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#123

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:19 AM UTC

jfoster wrote: post #118

dyarosla wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is this confirmation that they are launching essentially a driverless Tesla-brand Uber competitor?

That was already confirmed. https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux "You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you're at work or on vacation"

... and perhaps legal liability for you, if it's involved in a crash or a passenger injury.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#124

Post by CamperBob2 » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:20 AM UTC

kpao wrote: post #113

detaro wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what is "take control at a moments notice" in seconds? From what I've read about aviation, situations where really fast, let's say It seems like an airliner flying at altitude has quite large safety margins compared to a car on a highway.

Tell that to a pilot who's had an autopilot failure where a servo went crazy all of a sudden. You better act quick, especially in low visibility situations, to turn it off, or pull the circuit breaker. It might happen a bit slower than in a car, but the consequences can be much more dramatic.

Especially considering that the pilot has been trained to react to an autopilot failure, while a driver hasn't been.

There is just no excuse for using that particular term for this particular technology.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#125

Post by femto » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:20 AM UTC

luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

Closely related to what you wrote, it will also be about verifying the hardware itself, independently of any software models.

New hardware needs hours in the field, to verify failure rates and performance under real world conditions. Early deployment means Tesla's hardware will be ready for full service as soon as software is available. Autonomous driving then becomes "just a software problem", with hardware eliminated as a variable.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#126

Post by belltaco » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:21 AM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #106

simonsarris wrote: post #18

How interesting. So up-coming Tesla drivers temporarily won't get fancy features. For a time, new Tesla buyers again become early adopters. But unlike traditional early adopters, who take a trade-off (on price, or features, or polish) for being first, these adopters are promised the features when they are ready. The nay-saying around Tesla is immense, even in these early HN comments. Obviously there's some risk here,…

this really comes off as "look over there" move to distract from the recent negative press as various government bodies take Tesla to task for not only the lack of performance with the current system but also its ridiculous name. Sorry, but I seriously doubt they will have sufficient hardware installed to take it to level 4 or 5. It might be a stretch to get to 3 with anything they can deploy today simply because no…

>this really comes off as "look over there" move to distract from the recent negative press as various government bodies take Tesla to task for not only the lack of performance with the current system but also its ridiculous name.

So you mean there is no advanced hardware in the new cars?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#127

Post by dzhiurgis » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

thesimon wrote: post #70

If you go to the order page of the Model S, it says for the "Full Self-Driving Hardware": >Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. Interesting decision.

Buy buying this car you actually hailing it from Tesla.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#128

Post by NeutronBoy » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:26 AM UTC

aianus wrote: post #119

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are concept cars, concept cars always look like that before the final designs come about. Fashion does the same thing.

The 'final designs' of other companies' EVs still look ridiculous. Volt, Leaf, i8, none of them look like regular cars like Teslas do.

'Regular cars' look like they do because of design limitations imposed by things like fuel tanks, engines, and gearboxes.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#129

Post by timdorr » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:28 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #120

mcmatterson wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a big deal, actually. It's a EULA for cars.

Until it's tested in court, the legality of that restriction is highly questionable. (Which is not to say that you can ignore it with impunity. If you don't have the money for a multi-year lawsuit against a billionaire, you might not want to violate it.) Presuming that such "EULAs for cars" are not legally binding, the next step will be cars that simply will not do the "forbidden" action, because their software detec…

It's different because the self-driving doesn't entirely happen within the vehicle. Tesla maintains a road database to base driving decisions off of and it's assumed you obtain that information from the network.

> Initially, the vehicle fleet will take no action except to note the position of road signs, bridges and other stationary objects, mapping the world according to radar. The car computer will then silently compare when it would have braked to the driver action and upload that to the Tesla database. If several cars drive safely past a given radar object, whether Autopilot is turned on or off, then that object is added to the geocoded whitelist.

So, you will likely be accessing a service to use the self-driving features. At that point, I think it's technically within Tesla's rights to dictate how that service is used.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#130

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:30 AM UTC

luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

Thinking Google was screaming for more opportunities to acquire and test data. Had to be satisfied with a few cars and a small area shared with other companies. Tesla is making its own jackpot here.