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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#91
I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers.

The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part of that will include contractual requirements for the system to have clocked n-kilometers on the highway in full (or partial) operation. For example, one project had a requirement for car(s) with full sensor data recording and partial automation enabled for 1 million kms.

The automotive suppliers will outfit a handful of, say 2019 model year test cars with the proposed sensors in the correct place and drive them around roads and highways in the specified conditions. Outfitting the cars can be expensive with prototype hardware, collecting the resulting data is a pain, and as a result the suppliers I'm familiar with run a (relatively) small number of cars for a lot of miles to record all that data.

The point of all this is to collect sensor data for resimulation as models are developed and trained. If an exceptional event occurs, they can modify the driving model, then "replay" the new model against all prior collected data to make sure the change doesn't do something unexpected elsewhere.

This process takes a lot of time (years) to pursue in this manner. What Tesla is doing is deploying the hardware in the field, then using the deployed systems to collect data to be used for the development of the automation platform. Instead of a couple of test mules they can use every single car they sell and let you drive it around for them while they record the results. Data collection that would take years can happen in weeks. This is a brilliant shortcut to the process and it puts them a couple years in front of the competition.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From a PR perspective, the name was a solid gold decision. I doubt it. It creates false hopes and probably hurted/hurts them when crashs happen. The Tesla autopilot death in June was a really big thing, yet other crashes where assistant systems of other manufacturers are never in the press. Maybe because of the name, maybe because the drivers use them better? Also look at what happened recently in Germany: 1. Basica…

The autopilot in an airplane cannot be used without a pilot paying attention, either, but it is still called an autopilot. (For example, autopilots do not avoid traffic on a collision course.)

To be fair planes aren't sold to relatively untrained individuals. Furthermore many accidents have happened when trained pilots stopped paying attention on the job and autopilot failed. I'm totally expecting a "Florida Man in Fatal Tesla Crash Was Masturbating to Internet Pornography" headline.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#93
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not something I'd want to see beta tested on the highway. It's not like the previous-gen cars aren't on the highway at the moment. Or has "autopilot" been deactivated in the meanwhile? I understand their step to add better sensors for the future (even though it seems difficult without LIDAR). But disabling autopilot for new cars with better sensors and keeping it enabled for older ones seems like a strange step.

i'm guessing that the data is just plain too different (probably no more mobileye sensors, for example) and not worth adapting to the older ML models (which itself would require extensive testing) when the new system is going to end up with different ML models anyways. [edit] Tesla previously hired Jim Keller (chip designer) into the autopilot team. considering the kinds of things he may be working on, i'd be surpris…

Fair enough.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great that they're taking the big risks needed to move the industry forward, and not letting the lawyers run the company. But some of the risks they're taking are just completely stupid and unnecessary, such as calling their assisted cruise control "Autopilot." That's like waving the proverbial cape at the proverbial bull.

Pilot here. Airplanes have autopilot. While on autopilot you are still expected to be monitoring the flight and take control at a moments notice. Autopilot does not allow the pilot to take a nap or go in the back and party with the flight attendants. Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Because your industry has coined a term to mean something different from the literal meaning doesn't assert its the proper use the term. Auto implies automatically, it doesn't give any average consumer the indication that there needs to be manual involvement. I get it that pilots monitor stuff when planes are on auto pilot. That doesn't mean its correct for other industries.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great that they're taking the big risks needed to move the industry forward, and not letting the lawyers run the company. But some of the risks they're taking are just completely stupid and unnecessary, such as calling their assisted cruise control "Autopilot." That's like waving the proverbial cape at the proverbial bull.

Pilot here. Airplanes have autopilot. While on autopilot you are still expected to be monitoring the flight and take control at a moments notice. Autopilot does not allow the pilot to take a nap or go in the back and party with the flight attendants. Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Curious, what is "take control at a moments notice" in seconds? From what I've read about aviation, situations where really fast, let's say It seems like an airliner flying at altitude has quite large safety margins compared to a car on a highway.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#96

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a prece…

> I can't think of a precedent for this

Autopilot 1.0 was the precedent.

They announced that at the 'D' event that all cars shipping from then on would have AP hardware in.

The capabilities were progressively rolled out depending on the tech package you purchased over the next 12 months.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#97
From the car purchase page, it seems that they are charging an additional $13,200 (combining the addons Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving capability at $7,900 and $5,300 respectively) for the full experience:

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/models/design

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#98

Will this new neural net and hardware be capable of advanced object detection? For instance if a plastic bag or piece of cardboard rolls across the highway a human driver knows it's safe to run over without stopping. Would a system like this just see an obstacle via radar and emergency brake? Google has been working on this problem for longer and they have access to the largest image/video datasets in the world to tr…

> Google has been working on this problem for longer and they have access to the largest image/video datasets in the world to train their models As of August, Google's self-driving cars have 2 million miles of real on-road experience, while Tesla's Autopilot systems have 140 million. They're beaming back data to Tesla the whole time.

Significantly different data sets, though. Google has full surround camera and LIDAR. Tesla has very limited external world sensor data in comparison.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#99
More cameras. Better sonars (very short range). Better radar processing, but apparently the same old single radar at bumper height. Still no windshield-height radar. No radar scanning in elevation. No LIDAR.

That's a better, but still weak sensor suite. It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It's far below Google's sensor suite. Or Volvo's.

Now they just have to write software smart enough to not plow into stationary vehicles on the shoulder. There are videos of three separate Tesla crashes where the Tesla plowed into a vehicle partially blocking a lane.

There have been several announcements of low-cost solid-state LIDAR units for automotive. Quantergy announced last year, but didn't ship.[1] Innoviz announced this year to ship in 2018.[2] Advanced Scientific Concepts can't get their costs down.[3] (They have a great unit that costs $100K; the Dragon spacecraft uses it during docking.) Those are all-solid-state devices. There are also some companies trying to use MEMS mirrors, like TV projectors. Eventually somebody will get 3D LIDAR technology working at a low price point, but it hasn't happened yet.

[1] http://www.quanergy.com/products/ [2] http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/sens... [3] http://www.advancedscientificconcepts.com/applications/autom...

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#100

If you go to the order page of the Model S, it says for the "Full Self-Driving Hardware": >Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. Interesting decision.

This is a big deal, actually. It's a EULA for cars.

Which will only last if they're the only ones that can make self-driving cars I would think.

Edit: Though you can have your car join that network sooo. Mostly just means they don't want to sell to Uber, heh.

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