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Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

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Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#241

Post by reader5000 »

pcurve wrote: post #222
reader5000 wrote: post #71

Any research on association of joblessness with internet addiction? I know China has entire state-sponsored treatment programs for internet/video game addiction; they think it is a real problem. I think if a person is consuming 8-9 hours of electronic media per day (which is around average), particularly internet or video games, then their motivation/capacity to interface with the real world is severely damaged. In m…

The problem is, this has been a long term trend that pre-dates proliferation of internet by decades.

How you mean? Young people dropping out of society I thought was a relatively recent thing. In Japan "hikikomori" started getting noted early 2000s.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#242

Post by throwaway1892 »

denzil_correa wrote: post #232
throwaway1892 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, thank you for the information. > That is assuming the current system is not good enough. Where I am, the current system seems sorely lacking, for example regarding the number of homeless, social mobility, existing public infrastructure, education, healthcare... > Generally, migrants move to countries with opportunities. Apparently 10% of unemployment is enough of an opportunity for migrant going to Western Europe…

The original article points to an overall positive effect of migration including refugees. I don't see how this will change. That said, the falling social security system in Europe is not due to refugees but to how the system is built.

I agree that long-term migration have a positive effect on the economy. Short term migration, on the other hand, is a little bit more disputed since most migrant will send money back to their home country. But for the refugees, since the country where they arrive is often not chosen because of economic opportunities, but because of politic/proximity, and the fact that refugees migration is mostly short term, I think that refugee migration has a negative effect. (see for example the countries with a lot of refugees in the Middle-East, such as Lebanon or Jordan).

I agree that the failing of the welfare state in Europe is caused by how it is built, but the refugee crisis might broke the system beyond repair.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#243

Post by DashRattlesnake »

trentnix wrote: post #236
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that's the thing - temp labor is, by definition, disposable. You're moving the goalposts. Your initial post, which I was responding to, said that companies treating their unskilled workers as disposable "doesn't pass the smell test." Now, when confronted with evidence, you claim that same treatment is "by definition." That's not very consistent. > The links you provided - which read like propaganda, btw So sorr…

1. Hardly. It's simply a recognition that a temp worker and temp opportunity recognize the fleeting nature of a particular job position. 2. They read like propaganda because they set up dramatic emotional arguments about people and their families. Is it really necessary to know that the gentleman calls his wife at 2am because she "can't sleep when he isn't there"? It's manipulation, and consequently your response wou…

> Hardly. It's simply a recognition that a temp worker and temp opportunity recognize the fleeting nature of a particular job position.

Again, it's moving the goalposts to say these situations "don't pass the smell test," then turn around to say "but it's OK because they're temps."

> Is it really necessary to know that the gentleman calls his wife

Perhaps not, but it's more engaging writing, and there's plenty of factual reporting there as well.

> Indeed, these workers are people. And because they aren't unthinking machines, they shouldn't work in a place that doesn't place any value on their well-being. The market will then sort out poor employers appropriately.

The thing is, the real situation is usually more complicated and often doesn't offer such easy choices for the actual workers. It's telling that, on the one hand, you excuse these work environments as being fit for non-information-workers, then turn around an expect these workers to have information-worker levels of economic power in job choice.

While it can be quite comforting to believe the market will sort this all out, I think that's naive and causes some people to blind themselves to the actual problems out there.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#244

Post by istjohn »

contingencies wrote: post #28
istjohn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, you claimed that many of the people diagnosed are actually fine. Please revise or walk back your statement if you want, but don't deny the plain meaning of your words.

I implied that perhaps their particular mental configurations, different as they are, should perhaps not be considered abnormal and in fact this is a false stigma of society. I did not imply any value judgement about their mental configurations.

Your attitude, were it to be adopted as conventional wisdom, would deprive huge numbers of people of medical treatment that dramatically improves their lives. Most DSM definitions stipulate something similar to: "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic or occupational functioning". If people seek help for such conditions, they should have their concerns taken seriously and be provided the necessary treatment. It's not helpful to simply suggest perhaps it's natural for some people to be morbidly depressed or disconnected from reality.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#245

Post by throwaway1892 »

denzil_correa wrote: post #5
saiya-jin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are describing small part of europe, that's getting even smaller. just give immigration a bit of time

> you are describing small part of europe, that's getting even smaller. How small? > just give immigration a bit of time Do you have a time frame? How will it effect?

Another hypothesis (on how the migrants might cause the disappearance of welfare state in Western Europe):

The society that created the welfare state is particular enough that the change contributed by the influx of immigrants might change the society to a point where the welfare state disappear. It's more of a social change than an economical one. In that case, it's on a long time frame (decades at least), where my other hypothesis is more political and economic and is shorter, around a decade.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#246

Post by Grishnakh »

gizmo wrote: post #133
muninn_ wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rebuilding what nation? The U.S. was unscathed and came out roaring. Everybody could get jobs, college was cheap, home ownership was a given. And don't forget, millennials have been shouldering this global war on terror crap for the last 15 years. While WW2 was horrific, at least they were fighting for something they believed in, and at least it was over after 4 years. Oh and then add in the second worst financial cr…

What nation? Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Serbia, France, Russia, Japan, you name it. Because of this worldwide rebuilding effort there was an incredible demand for products, construction, and so forth. US industry and exports boomed as a result. The greatest generation in the US had it a lot easier than their peers in Europe, but the economics are intertwined. By focusing exclusively on US prosperity…

We're not talking about other countries, the context of the discussion here was clearly about the US, as seen in the reference to Millennial economic troubles which is an issue in the US today.

For the US, the war lasted 4 years, not 6.

No, slave-holding generations weren't worse, because not everyone owned slaves; that was mostly unique to the South. That's like claiming that Millennials suck because they all love 4x4s and mudding and having lots of guns and are big Trump fans. The US fought a nasty war over that issue because most of the population was not part of the slave-holding class, and even the poor white people in the South didn't own slaves either, only the rich ones, though they suckered the poor ones into fighting for their stupid cause.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#247

Post by rini17 »

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

I think what you wrote is 99% about your cultural conditioning. I know the depression makes it even harder, but you should try to forget what everyone says and just paint or write something. Do something not because people expect it but because it has some value for you. There is always something to do for oneself, no matter how small. Every day.

-- Just 2 eurocents from fellow european. I have had my share of handicap and exclusion, it took long arduous years but now I can stay idle whenever I want and not give a fuck about people thinking what I should be doing instead.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#248

Post by throwaway1892 »

jokoon wrote: post #173
NhanH wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't read into this post and the questions any more deeply than the surface, I do not have any intended judgement nor intend to imply anything. I'm trying to understand your post: I got your situation, but I'm missing the bigger points you are making. > How on earth do you want people like me begging for a job? It makes no sense. What do you mean with "people like you"? What is your problem? I'm taking the fi…

> What is your problem? I'm the archetype loser. > Or that we currently have a shitty situation in job finding? I think companies don't care about the candidate they are looking for. Of course it's a market, but it's not well "regulated". Nobody really knows who is available for what, and due to that, companies can't really hire properly. If there were an actual database of candidates, and if there were better profil…

Linkedin seems a good enough database of candidates, with the number of offer I receive every month. But you need some keyword plus completed projects/employments

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#249

Post by throwaway1892 »

kleim wrote: post #171
throwaway1892 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software developement is in high demand in France too. (I arrived in the job market there a year ago and easily got a job)

I think it depends on your field/position. From my experience, anything else than management will get you a rather bad income. Most of "software engineers" in France are basically considered as making a job at technician/operator level. Some of these jobs are actually getting exported to India or Spain.

Well, it's still white collar work and if you have an engineer's diploma in software, you'll have higher salaries than a people with an equivalent degree (engineer's diploma) in other industries (construction, car construction). But you need that diploma, without it, the GP will have a very hard time finding any kind of position. Other degrees might give access to the job market, so, in his case, he should try to find a short formation giving him a degree so he can work. Currently some consulting companies (les sociétés de services) are hiring like crazy, so with a degree and some work sample, you might get a foot in the door.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#250

Post by tropo »

vrtx0 wrote: post #114

I'm one of these missing men. I'm currently 35, and have been working as a software engineer since I was 19. Two years ago, I started experiencing excruciating, unrelenting low back pain that eventually required me to leave my job and go on long term disability. I loved my job. I worked at MongoDB in Palo Alto for 3 years, contributing to the core database (C++) and designed a performance testing platform (among othe…

There are non-opioid choices. Pick one. The opioids will ultimately kill you.

Ziconotide is a fine choice. It works better too. The only downside is that you can't take it in pill form.

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