Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 279 posts

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#111

Post by mfoy_ »

logicallee wrote: post #97
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

People respond to incentives. You ( specifically you) get paid to be disabled. If the government started paying people to have an urge to eat artificially shit-flavored desserts (which is obviously a mental issue, since it's disgusting) then as soon as word got out, we would have a new epidemic of people with an inexplicable obsession to eat artificially shit-flavored desserts, making them unsuitable to integrate and…

If you're going to play Devil's advocate, at least put some effort into it.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#112

Post by pjc50 »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #91
lgieron wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is literally no goal set for me. Will I get a pension when I get older? WHO KNOWS? Will I ever get off working even when I reach a very old age? Who knows, most likely i'll be working for the rest of my life... There is an universal retirement scheme in USA, isn't that money enough?

If you're referring to social security, then no. Considering that many of us have no faith in it's solvency.

US social security will have no "solvency" problem unless one of two things happens:

- political decision(s) are made with the intent of making it insolvent.

- a very long period of zero growth, or moderate period of deep recession. Worse or longer than the post-2008 crisis.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#113

Post by SolaceQuantum »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #58
muse900 wrote: post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a Gant sweater. There are thousands of families that are surviving just fine without any of that. We have survived for centuries without external entertainment, and suddenly, you NEED this so you don't get bored? Why not have a conversation with your wife. Sit d…

I will note that those things have value,especially dependent on where you are and what context you exist in socially. There are conversations about tv shows, actors, whatever new show is on Netflix that you will be isolated from without access. There are friends and family with apple products that don't work well with a cheaper phone, such as the messaging system on iPhone. It becomes an obstacle to social activities, which is necessary. Similarly, wearing expensive clothing may become a basis of not looking like a slob in front of your friends or family. There's nothing wrong with that, either. It all depends on context.

Trying to ignore all these things as not necessary also ignores the context in which they exist in. It feels dismissive to call that entitlement when one doesn't even know the circumstances in which someone else lives.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#114

Post by vrtx0 »

I'm one of these missing men. I'm currently 35, and have been working as a software engineer since I was 19. Two years ago, I started experiencing excruciating, unrelenting low back pain that eventually required me to leave my job and go on long term disability.

I loved my job. I worked at MongoDB in Palo Alto for 3 years, contributing to the core database (C++) and designed a performance testing platform (among other things). It was a true pleasure to have worked with some extraordinarily brilliant people throughout my career. I biked ~5 miles to work from the house I shared with my partner in Atherton. Life was perfect.

I now live with my parents in Florida, and have symptoms that have progressed to what could be MS (I'm undergoing a complete work up at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL).

Life sucks. I'm depressed, but who wouldn't be? I also take prescription pain medicine, which helps me get out of bed and shed some of the 105lbs I've gained since this started. Being 6'2" and 285lbs is depressing in it's own right.

That said, I want to stress two things:

1. Opioids are daemonized by the media, but there is no better option (aside from suicide). The implied correlation with pain medication in this article seems to reinforce the stigma I've been facing; that somehow I'm lazy, weak or an addict. But all I can offer is my word.

Like most people who enjoy software engineering, I gained immense gratification from solving difficult problems, learning new things, and completing a piece of software I'm proud of. Opioids don't replace that feeling (for me anyway). Nothing does. But the lesions on my brain make writing software effectively impossible.

2. Debilitating conditions predicate losing a job and starting pain medication. Maybe some people are just lazy and hate their jobs, but please don't punish me (and others like me) for it. Even if they're in the majority, please don't punish me. I suffer enough.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#115

Post by disease »

nitrogen wrote: post #56
dilemma wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment causes depression and other types of mental reactions that are classified as disorders or diseases.

It could be argued that it's not unemployment itself that causes depression, but the implications and effects of unemployment. If one could magically find independence, social acceptance, and financial support without employment, I suspect most of the ill effects of unemployment would disappear.

As someone who has spent significant amounts of time 'funemployed', I have to disagree.

There's a great line from Madmen about people that retire early. They play golf, they go to parties and then they die.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#116

Post by Ntrails »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #58
muse900 wrote: post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a Gant sweater. There are thousands of families that are surviving just fine without any of that. We have survived for centuries without external entertainment, and suddenly, you NEED this so you don't get bored? Why not have a conversation with your wife. Sit d…

>Pensions are long gone. They have IRAs. If you're worried about retirement, set money aside right now.

Pensions haven't gone anywhere, unless you mean Defined Benefit ones where the company assumes all the risks and guarentees a salary from retirement - in which case yes those are basically gone everywhere except the public sector.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#117

Post by secstate »

duaneb wrote: post #87
secstate wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Just a side note, hedonism is not the same as excess or consumerism: it is the maximization of pleasure over a lifetime. The experiences being sold are not the experiences we enjoy the most.

An excellent point. Thanks for the clarification!

I would argue, however, that hedonism is a human philosophy that leads to pleasure maximization, which means consumerism and excess compliment it.

There are other ways to live your life, that seek to maximize the impact of your effort in other's lives, which do not work was well alongside consumerism.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#118

Post by pjc50 »

barrkel wrote: post #54
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Poe's law strikes again. Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch. I think that, to protect your ego against accusations of laziness, you've projected this idea of society as a pointless activity, so you can defend to yourself your choices. It is self-delusional.

"Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve.

.. and that's why we turn pensioners out into the snow once they cease contributing.

Oh, wait, no we don't, because we recognise that they're human beings and members of society.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#119

Post by wu-ikkyu »

johndevor wrote: post #84
secstate wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Human desires are unlimited. So this problem isn't going anywhere anytime soon. That said, I think a lot of overconsumption originates from traumatic childhoods (people trying to fill a hole in their hearts) and the welfare state (people don't know what things truly cost).

>That said, I think a lot of overconsumption originates from traumatic childhoods (people trying to fill a hole in their hearts) and the welfare state (people don't know what things truly cost).

What about incessant advertising?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#120

Post by muninn_ »

gizmo wrote: post #90
awjr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this differently. I see a world heading towards basic income. Adam Curtis - HyperNormalisation was released last night ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04b183c/adam-curtis-hy... ). Haven't watched it yet but I do think there seems to be a certain type of crazy happening in the world and I can't put my finger on it. We have whole generations of young people that have been disenfranchised and are having to…

Millennials have to carry that financial burden, but most other generations had to make much bigger sacrifices. I'd take the financial struggles of the millennial generation over having to fight in WW2 and rebuilding the nation in the aftermath, which is what the Greatest Generation got tasked with. Every generation faces difficult challenges, and the financial issues of the millennial generation are just a matter of…

Rebuilding what nation? The U.S. was unscathed and came out roaring. Everybody could get jobs, college was cheap, home ownership was a given.

And don't forget, millennials have been shouldering this global war on terror crap for the last 15 years. While WW2 was horrific, at least they were fighting for something they believed in, and at least it was over after 4 years. Oh and then add in the second worst financial crisis ever putting millions out of work, and crushing student loan debt in order to even participate in the workforce.

The greatest generation fought the greatest war, but their kids were the worst American generation we've ever had.

Post reply on HN