Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#91

Post by dajohnson89 » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

lgieron wrote: post #70

muse900 wrote: post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

> There is literally no goal set for me. Will I get a pension when I get older? WHO KNOWS? Will I ever get off working even when I reach a very old age? Who knows, most likely i'll be working for the rest of my life... There is an universal retirement scheme in USA, isn't that money enough?

If you're referring to social security, then no. Considering that many of us have no faith in it's solvency.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#92

Post by return0 » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

You can always choose a slow life, somewhere in the country with a few chicken. At least your idleness is not burdening others that way.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#93

Post by qntty » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

hedgew wrote: post #49

In programming and academia you only see the most gifted of society, and even many of those seem to struggle. I can barely imagine what it would be like to be in the less gifted half of the population. I wonder if such men have any chance to build a life respected, or even just work enough to found a family. They seem to have fewer options each year, to find satisfying roles in life. They seem to receive even less un…

This is why Trump is popular. He's the opiate of people who are left behind. People mock them for supporting Trump, but few people offer appealing alternatives.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#94

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

contingencies wrote: post #34

maxerickson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, a diagnosis of a mental disorder isn't an attempt to slur a person, it's recognition that they have behavior patterns that inhibit their ability to engage with society. That's something that can be assessed pretty objectively.

I did not say that, and I agree with you. However, I disagree that any majority has the right to force others to 'engage with society' on their own terms or be excluded, which is often basically what allegations of 'mental illness' are.

The exclusion can happen without any use of force, and a lot of outreach programs focus on reducing the exclusion, not on forcing normative behaviors.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#95

Post by reverend_gonzo » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

zer0gravity wrote: post #67

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

I think I resonate with you. I think that the number one occupation we should have is to live our lives. The way we do this should be according to our values and not neccesarily to how others think we should. Now, life has a mechanistic component driven by neccesities and an artistic one driven by ideals, self expression and pleasure. The promised goal of modern technology was that a large part of the rutined work co…

  I'm not sure if many realize, but in such a world very few would actually work. All the rest will play.

Okay, so who decides who will work and who will play? Why should I bust my ass all day working, while you just live however you want to?

Right now, the reason some people bust their ass working, is being they can get paid more and live a higher quality of life. If everybody get everything they want, why would anyone work?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#96

Post by kakarot » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #54

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Poe's law strikes again. Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch. I think that, to protect your ego against accusations of laziness, you've projected this idea of society as a pointless activity, so you can defend to yourself your choices. It is self-delusional.

Fa real, it's like people think if society didn't exist everything would be better and we wouldn't be scrounging for basic necessities on a daily basis, without much time for lofty pursuits.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#97

Post by logicallee » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:03 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

People respond to incentives. You (specifically you) get paid to be disabled. If the government started paying people to have an urge to eat artificially shit-flavored desserts (which is obviously a mental issue, since it's disgusting) then as soon as word got out, we would have a new epidemic of people with an inexplicable obsession to eat artificially shit-flavored desserts, making them unsuitable to integrate and join any workforce. That is not comfortable, it's not a nice, idle living, eating artificial shit-flavoring. But if that's what the government is paying for, some people will do it.

your English is good, given your skills background if you applied to 1,000 junior software dev positions (which would take you less than a year at the lowly pace of three per day) you would be employed in short order. But nobody is paying you to do that. You are, however, being paid to be disabled.

your comment is simply an example of people responding to incentives.

- Disclaimer: please don't respond to this comment. since I expect a bunch of responses from you let me preempt them by saying that I don't believe the above (or it's a joke) and I just copied it from a neo-Nazi web site, it's obviously completely wrong and not worth responding to, thanks. I just wanted to give it an example of what people say who are literally worse than Hitler. don't respond. I will just say that you're obviously completely right in every way and your response wasn't worth writing.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#98

Post by mfoy_ » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:03 PM UTC

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #58

muse900 wrote: post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a Gant sweater. There are thousands of families that are surviving just fine without any of that. We have survived for centuries without external entertainment, and suddenly, you NEED this so you don't get bored? Why not have a conversation with your wife. Sit d…

I agree that GP is deluded and entitled. Not to absolve him of his own responsibility for his decisions, but there are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people. Companies spend insane amounts of money trying to convince more people that they "need" their products.

It's not even just ads and commercials that are guilty of this. Most mainstream media assumes the "American Dream" happens to involve a lot of material possessions, and proceeds accordingly. It's in the little things, and it's everywhere.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#99

Post by return0 » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:03 PM UTC

throwawayIndian wrote: post #74

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Dude, I can understand what you're saying here! Those who haven't lived through a depression will never understand your plight and obviously not be able to "see" the challenges you face -- how oddly suppressed your voice is against this entire world -- but walk out of this ditch right now. It is going to kill you and even then the world will not understand your pain because it's designed that way. You don't have to c…

If it's depression that causes demotivation how will "going nonprofit" be more motivating? I think you need to fix the depression issue first.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#100

Post by mikebelanger » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:03 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #33

After watching the documentary "13th" on Netflix recently, I wondered about how the US prison population affected this. Something like 1 out of 100 people in the US are in prison, which must be close to 2 out of 100 men. And another chunk of people who's function in society is to monitor those in jail. Plus the difficulties of getting a job as a felon. Seemed like all put together must have a serious impact on produc…

That's a good question, one that the article didn't mention. Plus, a lot of stuff is now made through prison labour -- which is substantially lower-paid than the normal minimum wage. This could translate to less opportunities for anyone outside of the prison.