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Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

61–70 of 279 posts

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#61

> 31 percent of those receiving benefits have mental disorders This has got to be a major contributing factor. Add in those with undiagnosed psych problems, and I'm sure it would stand out even more. [Of course, maybe they would be balanced out by the 'fakers'-- but that is almost equally alarming, and itself suggests all kinds of deeper problems.] Both reducing the stigma of and increasing access to mental health ca…

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Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#62
post #41
post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I see this differently. I see a world heading towards basic income.

Adam Curtis - HyperNormalisation was released last night (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04b183c/adam-curtis-hy...).

Haven't watched it yet but I do think there seems to be a certain type of crazy happening in the world and I can't put my finger on it.

We have whole generations of young people that have been disenfranchised and are having to carry the financial burden of baby boomers. A group in our society, that as it ages, becomes selfish and politically more conservative in their approach.

Something big needs to change and the idea "you must work to survive" within our society is beginning to sound very disjointed.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#63
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered coming to study in the United States and obtaining a bachelor's degree? Software development is in high demand in all aspects here. At worst you get a break from your current life, at best you start a new one. Let me know if you want to chat more.

I mean, $40,000 of student debt sounds like a great way to motivate someone to find work, but I don't think it's an ideal way to solve his problems.

$40k in debts to earn $80k+ per year for the rest of your life?

Sounds like a good trade-off to me...

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#64
post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

> I know I'm ranting but to me, society looks like a giant treading mill. Happiness and the slow, intelligent life have been forgotten in favor of a society of endless work and jobs. Contributing to the labor force has become a religion. The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It should not.

I mean, to a degree i can understand what you mean. We are seeking happiness in the treadmill and that rarely seems to bring it. We hope that after the treadmill there will be happiness, but few are sure of that.

My problem though, with what i took from your words, was that it sounds like you believe work is becoming less and less required. I don't feel that's true, unfortunately.

I think that will become true, in time, but we don't have the technology to automate the work we need to. Sure, we have various factory line jobs replaces with robotics, and we're working on lots of general replacement (Taxis, for example), but most of the labor force, even "just" manual labor, requires specific intensive understanding that we are not even close to replicating with robotics. Hell, we're still struggling to walk easily and effectively. Sure, walking robots are becoming more natural and skilled, but it's definitely still a WIP.

My robotics leap may have seemed odd, but that's what i believe is required before your comment holds true. Work will always be required - there is no doubt about that. Someone, some thing, will be doing work. And humanity will only be able to ignore work once we've enslaved something else to do it for us.

So back to topic, i think part of the stress you feel from society is a bit of a "i have to do it, so you have to do it" thing. Why should you get to do what you like, when others so clearly cant? You could argue that we're all expecting too much, we don't need the gadgets/etc, and that living very frugal can be a means to happiness, but living frugal doesn't absolve yourself from work.

The frugal lives of the world still work. Some may not work as hard, some may have much more free time, but there's still work to be done. You still have to learn the trades to repair your stuff, or pay someone else to do it for you. To grow your food, or to pay someone else to. And etc.

I'm not trying to come off aggressive, so i hope it doesn't seem that way. Perhaps i'm missing your point, but the statement of:

> ... and it's fine, because work is less and less necessary.

Seems very very foreign to me.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are describing small part of europe, that's getting even smaller. How small? > just give immigration a bit of time Do you have a time frame? How will it effect?

> How will it effect? My guess is that the increase number of immigrants in Western Europe will cause a reduction in social benefits

How? Without immigrants, the social benefit system would reduce anyways because there aren't enough young people to pay into the system. In addition, both low and high skilled migrants increase productivity and per capita GDP in advanced economies (Source : IMF) [0].

[0] http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2016/02/pdf/c4.pdf

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#67
post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

I think I resonate with you.

I think that the number one occupation we should have is to live our lives. The way we do this should be according to our values and not neccesarily to how others think we should.

Now, life has a mechanistic component driven by neccesities and an artistic one driven by ideals, self expression and pleasure.

The promised goal of modern technology was that a large part of the rutined work covering the neccesities of life would be outsourced to machines while humans could occupy themselves with the more pleasurable aspects of life..

I'm not sure if many realize, but in such a world very few would actually work. All the rest will play.

This is what AI will make a reality, and the job market needs a radical reform.

We should all prepare to transition from a work based paradigm to a play based paradigm. If you're doing it already good to you.

The subject is vast and has multiple implications but that's all I could distill in a HN post.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#68
Seems dubious. 50% of American adults have had chronic pain for the last 20 years, but unemployment among men has gone up dramatically in that time.

That said, we should ban companies like Red Bull from sponsoring extreme sports. Every time you see one of those People Are Awesome videos in your Facebook feed there is an entire cohort of permanently disabled kids that went into the making. There is a great documentary called Crash Reel about this.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#69
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment causes depression and other types of mental reactions that are classified as disorders or diseases.

It could be argued that it's not unemployment itself that causes depression, but the implications and effects of unemployment. If one could magically find independence, social acceptance, and financial support without employment, I suspect most of the ill effects of unemployment would disappear.

Ideally, something like Basic Income. In the UK the means testing for benefits if you find yourself out of work has resulted in numerous suicides:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/iain-duncan-sm...

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#70
post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

> There is literally no goal set for me. Will I get a pension when I get older? WHO KNOWS? Will I ever get off working even when I reach a very old age? Who knows, most likely i'll be working for the rest of my life...

There is an universal retirement scheme in USA, isn't that money enough?

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