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Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

221–230 of 279 posts

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something like 1 out of 100 people in the US are in prison, which must be close to 2 out of 100 men. Wait, doesn't that mean that mean that twice as many men are in prison as people are in prison?

I'm not sure if you're just confused because I switched from people to men, but it prompted me to look up the actual figures which are: 1352 per 100,000 men 126 per 100,000 women http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/genderinc.html

Ah, I see what you are saying, I wasn't thinking about the groups from which you were drawing (mornings before coffee obviously don't show me at my best).

My first thought after understanding what you were trying to say is actually backed up by the stats you found, as while men make up slightly less than half the populace, they have a much higher incarceration rate.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#222

Any research on association of joblessness with internet addiction? I know China has entire state-sponsored treatment programs for internet/video game addiction; they think it is a real problem. I think if a person is consuming 8-9 hours of electronic media per day (which is around average), particularly internet or video games, then their motivation/capacity to interface with the real world is severely damaged. In m…

The problem is, this has been a long term trend that pre-dates proliferation of internet by decades.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#223
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rebuilding what nation? The U.S. was unscathed and came out roaring. Everybody could get jobs, college was cheap, home ownership was a given. And don't forget, millennials have been shouldering this global war on terror crap for the last 15 years. While WW2 was horrific, at least they were fighting for something they believed in, and at least it was over after 4 years. Oh and then add in the second worst financial cr…

What nation? Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Serbia, France, Russia, Japan, you name it. Because of this worldwide rebuilding effort there was an incredible demand for products, construction, and so forth. US industry and exports boomed as a result. The greatest generation in the US had it a lot easier than their peers in Europe, but the economics are intertwined. By focusing exclusively on US prosperity…

Even so, their war actually ended. The Boomers experimented with extended war in Vietnam from about 1961 to around 1973, as the prototype. Gen X got to grow up with the Cold War, as the test type. Now Millennials get the production-model War on Terror, where the enemy is intentionally faceless, so that they can't spoil anything by surrendering, being defeated, or going bankrupt. The bogeyman is dead; fear now the new bogeyman.

I think perhaps the concept of continual war has been advanced to conceal the fact that we as a civilization don't really need all hands on deck any more. Governments have been inventing busy work for people, desperately hoping that no one notices that an increasing fraction of the necessary labor is being done by robots, and unskilled laborers have become increasingly superfluous. But the Puritanical, Calvinist, Bradfordian cultural undercurrents in the US frown deeply and disapprovingly on idleness, even as those doing the majority of the frowning and tsk-tsk-ing are now "retired".

In the slave-holding generations, the institution of slavery was largely perpetuated by wealthy plantation-owners, as a political minority. Slaves could escape on foot. Nowadays, the student loan debts may not be discharged in bankruptcy, and will follow you to the far ends of the Earth if you run. You generally cannot inhabit a dwelling without steep rent or mortgage debt. You cannot work without making payments into a system that transfers 15% of your earnings to mostly the retired Boomers, through a system that may not even be solvent at the time Gen X starts retiring. Is that worse than slavery? That's a matter of opinion. I think most would say not, but some might say yes sarcastically or as hyperbole in addition to those with a genuine and vehement disdain of Boomers.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about?" So why don't you? I get that if everyone did that, it wouldn't work, but you aren't everyone. You're just you.

No offense but that seems like a rather narrow mindset. Following that logic, why don't you just toss your trash on the street? Or steal every time you get a chance? Or be a jerk to everyone you meet? Some people have the "luxury" of lazing about at home but that kind of lifestyle is not sustainable for society at large. Expecting someone else to carry your weight just because you don't want to is rather childish.

There's nothing remotely narrow about it as a mindset. That doesn't even make any sense. I didn't present a mindset. I think you didn't consider what you meant by that; it's just a stock phrase people say when other people think differently.

The OP said he wanted to do something that wouldn't work if everyone did it. But he's not everyone. If he did it, it would work, and he said that's what he wanted to do. He wants to do something that will work. So why not do it? Since it will work.

Expecting someone else to carry your weight just because you don't want to is rather childish.

Boo hoo, cry me a river. So what? If you're the kind of person who doesn't want to be seen as childish, then there's your motivation for not mooching around at home all day, but the OP does want to mooch around at home all day, so why not do it?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in this context we're talking about software dev so. College graduates still makes a lot more over their lifetimes, debt or not, than high school grads.

For starters, OP says that he has health issues. That makes it much more difficult to hold a full-time job. If he can only work part time, he would be stuck earning far below the full-time market rate. As total annual revenue decreases, the time required to pay off that debt, along with the total amount of interest paid servicing it, goes up exponentially. Going to university isn't always a guaranteed win.

I didn't say it was a guaranteed win

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#226
post #203
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I went to physical therapy it consisted of them just teaching me stretches, all of which I could just find online. Is this the normal experience?

Good question. I can only share my personal experience; I've seen 5, but only 2 seemed to understand my pain and gave me exercises tailored to my needs (using elastic bands, aqua exercises, stretching, etc.). The standard for back pain seems to be core strengthening. I found aquatic exercises most helpful (and least painful) for that. The best ones I've seen were both athletes who succumbed to back injuries. But ther…

I also went to a PT that specialized in low back pain & sciatica. Mine has finally gone away and the PT helped, but it has taken 1 year.

There was a study in the UK where 90% of back pain goes away in 1 year, so they advised against any surgery. Of course this was in the UK so they couldn't get surgery within a year.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#227
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rebuilding what nation? The U.S. was unscathed and came out roaring. Everybody could get jobs, college was cheap, home ownership was a given. And don't forget, millennials have been shouldering this global war on terror crap for the last 15 years. While WW2 was horrific, at least they were fighting for something they believed in, and at least it was over after 4 years. Oh and then add in the second worst financial cr…

What nation? Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Serbia, France, Russia, Japan, you name it. Because of this worldwide rebuilding effort there was an incredible demand for products, construction, and so forth. US industry and exports boomed as a result. The greatest generation in the US had it a lot easier than their peers in Europe, but the economics are intertwined. By focusing exclusively on US prosperity…

We were discussing the United States in that context, I thought. Hopefully this was clear as I mentioned 4 years duration (1941-1945 versus 1939-1945) and the resulting economic prosperity which was heavily weighted toward the United States.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#228
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What nation? Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Serbia, France, Russia, Japan, you name it. Because of this worldwide rebuilding effort there was an incredible demand for products, construction, and so forth. US industry and exports boomed as a result. The greatest generation in the US had it a lot easier than their peers in Europe, but the economics are intertwined. By focusing exclusively on US prosperity…

Even so, their war actually ended . The Boomers experimented with extended war in Vietnam from about 1961 to around 1973, as the prototype. Gen X got to grow up with the Cold War, as the test type. Now Millennials get the production-model War on Terror, where the enemy is intentionally faceless, so that they can't spoil anything by surrendering, being defeated, or going bankrupt. The bogeyman is dead; fear now the ne…

Having to pay taxes and being burdened by college debt sucks, but it's not comparable to real actual enslavement. Your excuses why people might make that absurd claim (desire to engine in hyperbole and disdain for the Boomer generation) don't change the fact that slavery is worse.

Your post is also bad history.

Firstly, a full third of households held enslaved people in the south. Not just the rich elites.

Secondly, enslaved people couldn't just run away. Of course some tried but the risk of getting caught was very high and the consequences dire:

> The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 strengthened provisions for the recapture of slaves, and offered them no protection in the justice system. Bounty hunters and civilians could lawfully capture escaped slaves in the North, or any other place, using little more than an affidavit, and return them to the Slave master.

> Many escaped slaves upon return were to face harsh punishments such as amputation of limbs, whippings, branding, and many other horrible acts

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_slaves_in_the_United_...)

Not exactly comparable to the burden of college debt, wouldn't you say?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#229
post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

I had a discussion with OP in the past [1]. It basically boils down to him believing society has advanced to the point where not every one has to work (due to automation etc). Basic income (BI) should therefore be implemented and the societal perception of idleness/laziness be removed for people who don't work. The OP's motivation for this stance seems to be partially to justify his stance for ceasing search for work…

> However, I think the only reason he has this stance is because of his difficulty in finding a job.

I could work at mcdonalds.

The problem I have is how we tend to reward some attitudes, which to me seems weird. I have a huge problem with the job interview process and how I'm advised to behave or not. It sounds like I'm on some reality TV. And still, getting a job is one thing that could solve many of social problems, meaning socializing.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#230
post #73
post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Do you have personal projects though? I know a few people who have used a long disability/unemployment period as an opportunity to work on one project while receiving enough money to survive without needing immediate profitability. Having a degree doesn't have anything to do with that, either. I'm not in your place so I'm not saying you should do it, or even that I would actually do that if it were me. But I think I…

I do have personal projects, but they're ambitious and I tend to lack the experience and the proper motivation to work at home.
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