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Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

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Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#171

Post by kleim »

throwaway1892 wrote: post #55
muninn_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered coming to study in the United States and obtaining a bachelor's degree? Software development is in high demand in all aspects here. At worst you get a break from your current life, at best you start a new one. Let me know if you want to chat more.

Software developement is in high demand in France too. (I arrived in the job market there a year ago and easily got a job)

I think it depends on your field/position. From my experience, anything else than management will get you a rather bad income. Most of "software engineers" in France are basically considered as making a job at technician/operator level. Some of these jobs are actually getting exported to India or Spain.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#172

Post by VLM »

Prefinem wrote: post #139
Brybry wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You paint a bit of a false dichotomy there with the starvation scenario. You can easily have a system where a large number of people are unemployed and everyone still gets fed and employed people don't feel resentment. Do you think men resented their wives for the centuries when it was normal for wives to be homemakers? I would hope not.

Do you think wives were idle all day at home? It's one thing to be in the work force vs being at home and idle, and it's another to be in the work force vs at home clean / caring for children, etc.

People already predisposed to being idle are already idle and always will be.

People feeling the social pressure to do stuff, already do stuff and always will.

Its interesting to watch retired people.

Some social groups do just sit at home and watch TV and get inebriated, and no government program is going to stop them, or start them down that path. Others do all kinds of volunteer crazy work.

My retired MiL has a near part time job of volunteer work, around 20 hrs week. My wife was unemployed for awhile many years ago and she did some volunteer work to pad the resume and took training and educational classes. All the classes were theoretically STEM/useful but were completely useless in practice (if there's no job, it doesn't matter if you're now a freshly minted MCSE of Excel if there's no job).

My near retirement accountant neighbor can do nothing accounting like on his own, although he could have helped me a lot when I was a treasurer for a volunteer org, I was pretty lost the first few weeks. Also he spends about ten hours a week in his woodworking shop and I suspect after 40 years he's pretty tired of accounting even if he is an expert. He's a better woodworker than I (and I'm not that bad) so if we were both out of work permanently I'd probably apprentice under him for a few years.

Worthless people are going to be worthless and that's always been the case. People who aren't worthless are always going to be doing something (maybe not what you like or expect, but they'll be nose to grindstone on something...) and that's always been the case. A mere economic policy isn't going to change any of that.

Much like being fired or downsized usually doesn't change most people forever, merely being fired or downsized forever isn't going to change most people very much.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#173

Post by jokoon »

NhanH wrote: post #37
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Please don't read into this post and the questions any more deeply than the surface, I do not have any intended judgement nor intend to imply anything. I'm trying to understand your post: I got your situation, but I'm missing the bigger points you are making. > How on earth do you want people like me begging for a job? It makes no sense. What do you mean with "people like you"? What is your problem? I'm taking the fi…

> What is your problem?

I'm the archetype loser.

> Or that we currently have a shitty situation in job finding?

I think companies don't care about the candidate they are looking for. Of course it's a market, but it's not well "regulated". Nobody really knows who is available for what, and due to that, companies can't really hire properly. If there were an actual database of candidates, and if there were better profiling, and less job websites, maybe things would be much smoother. The job market is a complete anarchy. I would be glad to give $500 to a company so that this company can find me a good job that I will keep for 6 months. That would be an awesome investment. Yet this doesn't seem to exist for some reason.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#174

Post by daheza »

vrtx0 wrote: post #148
cableshaft wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through something similar the past couple of years, and was letting my back determine job prospects (i.e. I didn't want to take a train downtown and walk five blocks to work, hell I didn't want to walk to the parking garage next to my building). For me (and possibly only me, I don't know your situation), what worked better than anything was to start eating a keto (low carb, and incidentally no wheat) diet, whi…

Thanks for the suggestion. I've tried various diets, including Keto, LCHF, etc. I try to stick with LCHF just to slow down my weight gain, but it doesn't impact my pain or neurological symptoms. For anybody else reading this I'm a similar situation, please do follow cableshaft's advice and try new diets. I also recommend physical therapy. The cause(s) of MS and many similar diseases are not well understood. At all. F…

When I went to physical therapy it consisted of them just teaching me stretches, all of which I could just find online. Is this the normal experience?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#175

Post by throwawayIndian »

return0 wrote: post #99
throwawayIndian wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, I can understand what you're saying here! Those who haven't lived through a depression will never understand your plight and obviously not be able to "see" the challenges you face -- how oddly suppressed your voice is against this entire world -- but walk out of this ditch right now. It is going to kill you and even then the world will not understand your pain because it's designed that way. You don't have to c…

If it's depression that causes demotivation how will "going nonprofit" be more motivating? I think you need to fix the depression issue first.

> how will "going nonprofit" be more motivating?

It may not!, but usually healing others is also self-healing.

One has to figure this path for themselves.

> I think you need to fix the depression issue first.

Absolutely! However, solving inability to work is equally important. Otherwise the patient will fall back into a depression again.

P.S: The comments above were for OP's inability to work, find work or be motivated about it. It isn't a solution for depression, which obviously needs thorough professional or medical help.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#176

Post by reverend_gonzo »

jokoon wrote: post #161
reverend_gonzo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but you seem to contradict yourself: The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. If you're happy sitting at home and drawing, and you can pay your bills and survive in that manner, more power to you, but it seems you're not happy doing that. From what you write, it seems that…

Sure I contradict myself, and I know that. My issue is how people have been transformed into labor machines. Being rated by a salary is meek metric to begin with. That's a problem of principle. > I think the majority of people would classify you as being lazy, and I would say they are right to do so. And they would, but until you can find a good reason for me to contribute to a society, I would call that relatively l…

You are precisely the kind of person who causes people to question welfare.

I know exactly how to give you a good reason to contribute society. If we stop giving you free food and shelter, and if you want to not starve, you will find a job.

  In the current system you will get removed instantly if you are not competitive enough or take a little too much time to work on something. That's how capitalism works: only the numbers matter. People are not machines. Competition can be a problem if it becomes more important than cooperation. Unemployment is the failure of cooperation.
How would you know this? By your words, you have never worked more than a month in your entire life.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#177

Post by kazagistar »

pjc50 wrote: post #112
dajohnson89 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to social security, then no. Considering that many of us have no faith in it's solvency.

US social security will have no "solvency" problem unless one of two things happens: - political decision(s) are made with the intent of making it insolvent. - a very long period of zero growth, or moderate period of deep recession. Worse or longer than the post-2008 crisis.

Unless you think the world has infinite resources or that technological progress is unbounded and exponential, the second scenario seems exceedingly likey or even inevitable.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#178

Post by c0nducktr »

kakarot wrote: post #96
barrkel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poe's law strikes again. Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch. I think that, to protect your ego against accusations of laziness, you've projected this idea of society as a pointless activity, so you can defend to yourself your choices. It is self-delusional.

Fa real, it's like people think if society didn't exist everything would be better and we wouldn't be scrounging for basic necessities on a daily basis, without much time for lofty pursuits.

Nobody is calling for getting rid of society.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#179

Post by witty_username »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #129
muninn_ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what's consumerism to one isn't to another. If you're going to discuss needs and say somebody doesn't "need" something, then frankly there is a lot that we don't "need". To sustain life we could probably all get by as farmers and anything else would just be more than we "need".

What farmers? People used to kill other animals and pick berries, fruits and seeds.

That's pretty tiring. Easier to just throw seeds into the ground and let it grow. You can just pick it much more easily.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#180

Post by jazzyk »

pjc50 wrote: post #118
barrkel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poe's law strikes again. Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch. I think that, to protect your ego against accusations of laziness, you've projected this idea of society as a pointless activity, so you can defend to yourself your choices. It is self-delusional.

"Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. .. and that's why we turn pensioners out into the snow once they cease contributing. Oh, wait, no we don't, because we recognise that they're human beings and members of society.

Pensioners contributed through all their life to society and when they retire, it is expected that they are taken care of.

The OP is talking about cases where you are not in retirement, and not disabled, the society expects you to pull your own weight. It is only fair, no?

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