Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 279 posts

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#101

Post by swannicus »

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Being productive is an important part of life, though there isn't anything wrong with taking time off being productive to deal with an illness or build skills. I'd suggest focusing on self-care and getting your depression under control. Most people with mental illness will have it all their lives, its about getting it to a level that doesn't prevent you from enjoying life. Having no motivation and feeling exhausted are pretty detrimental to enjoying life. Although you said you are training to be a military reservist which sounds like it could be a great opportunity.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#102

Post by jliptzin »

secstate wrote: post #52
andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

There are people at Starbucks who genuinely enjoy creating those new pumpkin flavored concoctions. It's jobs for which no person enjoys doing that need to be automated, like taping up the same packing box 600 times a day.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#103

Post by mfoy_ »

wernercd wrote: post #63
bigmanwalter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, $40,000 of student debt sounds like a great way to motivate someone to find work, but I don't think it's an ideal way to solve his problems.

$40k in debts to earn $80k+ per year for the rest of your life? Sounds like a good trade-off to me...

Well stated like that it sounds like a good deal, but that statement makes a list of assumptions as long as my arm that quite simply are not guaranteed.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#104

Post by coldtea »

johndevor wrote: post #84
secstate wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Human desires are unlimited. So this problem isn't going anywhere anytime soon. That said, I think a lot of overconsumption originates from traumatic childhoods (people trying to fill a hole in their hearts) and the welfare state (people don't know what things truly cost).

>Human desires are unlimited.

Actually they are quite limited on their own. And they're not usually about things either -- aside from food and shelter, people want sex, love, security, etc.

That's why it takes a whole lot of convincing, advertising, conditioning etc. to get people to consume at the level modern societies do (and it took a whole lot of convincing, installment buying, easy credit etc. and nagging to jump start this trend, back in the pre-WWII days).

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#105

Post by secstate »

jliptzin wrote: post #102
secstate wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

There are people at Starbucks who genuinely enjoy creating those new pumpkin flavored concoctions. It's jobs for which no person enjoys doing that need to be automated, like taping up the same packing box 600 times a day.

That's fair enough. But a lot of business spends a lot of hours creating a value proposition for it's employees. That turns this idea into a self-fulfilling prophesy sort of work environment.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#106

Post by Brybry »

andrepd wrote: post #41
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

You paint a bit of a false dichotomy there with the starvation scenario.

You can easily have a system where a large number of people are unemployed and everyone still gets fed and employed people don't feel resentment.

Do you think men resented their wives for the centuries when it was normal for wives to be homemakers? I would hope not.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#107

Post by muninn_ »

coldtea wrote: post #88
muninn_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we don't need a TV at all. Or a 2,000 square foot house, or an education. We could just subsistence farm or something. Your life is what you make out of it. I work hard, think consumerism is dumb, and I generally spend my extra income by investing it. But I also enjoy getting some really great coffee (not necessarily from Starbucks) or watching a really fun TV show. Try not to worry too much about what frivolous…

> Well we don't need a TV at all. Or a 2,000 square foot house, or an education. We could just subsistence farm or something. Because it's either BS consumerism or subsistence farming?

Well, what's consumerism to one isn't to another. If you're going to discuss needs and say somebody doesn't "need" something, then frankly there is a lot that we don't "need". To sustain life we could probably all get by as farmers and anything else would just be more than we "need".

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#108

Post by eveningcoffee »

rch wrote: post #83
awjr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this differently. I see a world heading towards basic income. Adam Curtis - HyperNormalisation was released last night ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04b183c/adam-curtis-hy... ). Haven't watched it yet but I do think there seems to be a certain type of crazy happening in the world and I can't put my finger on it. We have whole generations of young people that have been disenfranchised and are having to…

At scale, all basic income will get you is a cot in an urban dorm somewhere (possibly not of your choosing). You'd be able to take walks, sit by the river and write in a journal, or do whatever idle activity appeals to you, but it won't be fancy.

I think that the key factor here is the access to the knowledge (science books, papers etc) and industrial capacity.

What many people fancy here based on my observation is the removal of stress to work on job with low productivity because of fear of becoming homeless and starving instead of working on some personal project that may or may not lead to success.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#109

Post by googletazer »

muse900 wrote: post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

>People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds like some sort of sorcery to me...

That strongly resonates with my own thoughts, so kindly allow me to let you on a little secret.

The secret is, working for others you can AT MOST expect 20% of the value you produce. If you want to live beyond paycheck to paycheck (espetially applicable in Europe and Latin America where its literally paycheck to paycheck for expenses) you gotta work for yourself.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#110

Post by amorphid »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #58
muse900 wrote: post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a Gant sweater. There are thousands of families that are surviving just fine without any of that. We have survived for centuries without external entertainment, and suddenly, you NEED this so you don't get bored? Why not have a conversation with your wife. Sit d…

Entitled or not, it sucks to know that our American parents and grandparents could buy homes, and we cannot. You could be nicer about "yeah it sucks, I hear you, but all is not lost..."
Post reply on HN