Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#81

Post by clifanatic » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

secstate wrote: post #52

andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

> Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a hard working soul at Starbucks or Tim Horton's has cooked up for the fall season?

My wife does...

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#82

Post by muninn_ » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

secstate wrote: post #52

andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Well we don't need a TV at all. Or a 2,000 square foot house, or an education. We could just subsistence farm or something.

Your life is what you make out of it. I work hard, think consumerism is dumb, and I generally spend my extra income by investing it. But I also enjoy getting some really great coffee (not necessarily from Starbucks) or watching a really fun TV show. Try not to worry too much about what frivolous things people spend money on, or it'll drive you crazy.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#83

Post by rch » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

awjr wrote: post #62

andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I see this differently. I see a world heading towards basic income. Adam Curtis - HyperNormalisation was released last night ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04b183c/adam-curtis-hy... ). Haven't watched it yet but I do think there seems to be a certain type of crazy happening in the world and I can't put my finger on it. We have whole generations of young people that have been disenfranchised and are having to…

At scale, all basic income will get you is a cot in an urban dorm somewhere (possibly not of your choosing).

You'd be able to take walks, sit by the river and write in a journal, or do whatever idle activity appeals to you, but it won't be fancy.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#84

Post by johndevor » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

secstate wrote: post #52

andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Human desires are unlimited. So this problem isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

That said, I think a lot of overconsumption originates from traumatic childhoods (people trying to fill a hole in their hearts) and the welfare state (people don't know what things truly cost).

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#85

Post by Allower » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

You are being lazy, stop making excuses for your lack of action. You can help people, you have skills, use them. You will try many things and fail at most, thats life, keep trying. Its the same it was for your father and his father before him and so on. Sure the environment and scenarios are different but the underlying forces at work are all the same. Human civilization only continues because people bust there ass trying to make something useful for other people.

You are 100% correct, society is a giant treadmill, its not really going anywhere, its simply surviving, but it provides an amazing depth and diversity of subjects and fields to explore and find meaning within.

Your problem isn't an intellectual problem, you aren't going to think your way to a satisfying life. You find satisfaction by not thinking about life, by finding things you can do without having to dwell on the terrible realities that are as much a part of life as the transcendent experiences.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#86

Post by bittercynic » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #48

muse900 wrote: post #32

What I'll write might sound stupid to some but well... There needs to be a re-configuration of the global economy and its system. People like me late 20's and younger might be feeling that they have no future. At least I do. I am working full-time and thats fine. That only pays my day to day expenses, coming the end of the month am always out of money waiting for the next paycheck. Me buying my own house? That sounds…

>Unfortunately prices went up, on houses etc and nowadays you got Tech involved in anything you do. You have to have a smartphone, and your wife wants the smartphone with the bitten apple no matter if it will cost half a months salary. Your kids want an Ipad or some sort of tablet. Your household needs a TV with netflix, amazon and whatever so you don't get bored. Add all those small things around and the era where e…

It seems pretty easy to me to ignore fancy brands and find the things I need at a good price. If I have a favorite brand, it is Kirkland ;)

I do have some sympathy for people who feel they need a Mercedes car and a North Face jacket, and consistently put themselves in financial peril to get those things. It seems like many are sincerely unable to say no to extravagant spending. Though I don't understand it, I try not to judge.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#87

Post by duaneb » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

secstate wrote: post #52

andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Just a side note, hedonism is not the same as excess or consumerism: it is the maximization of pleasure over a lifetime. The experiences being sold are not the experiences we enjoy the most.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#88

Post by coldtea » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

muninn_ wrote: post #82

secstate wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Well we don't need a TV at all. Or a 2,000 square foot house, or an education. We could just subsistence farm or something. Your life is what you make out of it. I work hard, think consumerism is dumb, and I generally spend my extra income by investing it. But I also enjoy getting some really great coffee (not necessarily from Starbucks) or watching a really fun TV show. Try not to worry too much about what frivolous…

>Well we don't need a TV at all. Or a 2,000 square foot house, or an education. We could just subsistence farm or something.

Because it's either BS consumerism or subsistence farming?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#89

Post by eveningcoffee » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #41

jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I think that you misinterpreted the meaning by a large margin.

The question is about handling the productivity gains. One option would be to use the gains to have more (intelligent, as was proposed) leisure time.

You do not have to work 8 hours a day if the job you did could be done in 30 minutes of work.

You can still keep working for 8 hours (or as it common, more) to squeeze even more out you than was possible before.

There is no explicit need for exponential growth of the productivity or population but for some reason industrialized word tries to maximize the first while the rest tries to maximise the last.

In combination it has lead to devaluation of the human life and our ideals.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#90

Post by gizmo » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

awjr wrote: post #62

andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

I see this differently. I see a world heading towards basic income. Adam Curtis - HyperNormalisation was released last night ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04b183c/adam-curtis-hy... ). Haven't watched it yet but I do think there seems to be a certain type of crazy happening in the world and I can't put my finger on it. We have whole generations of young people that have been disenfranchised and are having to…

Millennials have to carry that financial burden, but most other generations had to make much bigger sacrifices. I'd take the financial struggles of the millennial generation over having to fight in WW2 and rebuilding the nation in the aftermath, which is what the Greatest Generation got tasked with.

Every generation faces difficult challenges, and the financial issues of the millennial generation are just a matter of national policy. Okay, so some activism is needed to change this. Every generation had to engage in activism to create a more equitable society, why should the millennial generation be the exception? I think the future looks very bright overall, although I can totally see why some millennials see only doom and gloom because of their personal situation.