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Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

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Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#131

Post by neurotrace »

EliRivers wrote: post #76
andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

"Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about?" So why don't you? I get that if everyone did that, it wouldn't work, but you aren't everyone. You're just you.

No offense but that seems like a rather narrow mindset. Following that logic, why don't you just toss your trash on the street? Or steal every time you get a chance? Or be a jerk to everyone you meet?

Some people have the "luxury" of lazing about at home but that kind of lifestyle is not sustainable for society at large. Expecting someone else to carry your weight just because you don't want to is rather childish.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#132

Post by logicallee »

mfoy_ wrote: post #111
logicallee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People respond to incentives. You ( specifically you) get paid to be disabled. If the government started paying people to have an urge to eat artificially shit-flavored desserts (which is obviously a mental issue, since it's disgusting) then as soon as word got out, we would have a new epidemic of people with an inexplicable obsession to eat artificially shit-flavored desserts, making them unsuitable to integrate and…

If you're going to play Devil's advocate, at least put some effort into it.

I asked people not to reply to the comment, thanks.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#133

Post by gizmo »

muninn_ wrote: post #120
gizmo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millennials have to carry that financial burden, but most other generations had to make much bigger sacrifices. I'd take the financial struggles of the millennial generation over having to fight in WW2 and rebuilding the nation in the aftermath, which is what the Greatest Generation got tasked with. Every generation faces difficult challenges, and the financial issues of the millennial generation are just a matter of…

Rebuilding what nation? The U.S. was unscathed and came out roaring. Everybody could get jobs, college was cheap, home ownership was a given. And don't forget, millennials have been shouldering this global war on terror crap for the last 15 years. While WW2 was horrific, at least they were fighting for something they believed in, and at least it was over after 4 years. Oh and then add in the second worst financial cr…

What nation? Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Serbia, France, Russia, Japan, you name it. Because of this worldwide rebuilding effort there was an incredible demand for products, construction, and so forth. US industry and exports boomed as a result.

The greatest generation in the US had it a lot easier than their peers in Europe, but the economics are intertwined. By focusing exclusively on US prosperity you're missing that. The US prospered in large part _because_ of the miserable rebuilding effort in the rest of the world.

WW2 also lasted for 6 years, not 4.

As for your claim that boomers are the worst generation in American history, surely you're not suggesting that they're worse than the slave-holding generations? That position is frankly untenable.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#134

Post by e40 »

vrtx0 wrote: post #114

I'm one of these missing men. I'm currently 35, and have been working as a software engineer since I was 19. Two years ago, I started experiencing excruciating, unrelenting low back pain that eventually required me to leave my job and go on long term disability. I loved my job. I worked at MongoDB in Palo Alto for 3 years, contributing to the core database (C++) and designed a performance testing platform (among othe…

There is research suggesting medical marijuana is a good replacement for opioids, in some cases. Too bad FL isn't a state that gives you that option, so you could at least try it.

In CO, the deaths by opioids have gone down significantly.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#135

Post by zer0gravity »

pjc50 wrote: post #118
barrkel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poe's law strikes again. Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch. I think that, to protect your ego against accusations of laziness, you've projected this idea of society as a pointless activity, so you can defend to yourself your choices. It is self-delusional.

"Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. .. and that's why we turn pensioners out into the snow once they cease contributing. Oh, wait, no we don't, because we recognise that they're human beings and members of society.

A quote from Jack Sparrow ( and I don't think it's a coincidence that it comes form a pirate, but that doesn't make it imoral, as long as it stands the test of reality ) :

"There is no good or bad, it's only what you can or you cannot do".

Everyone will act in it's best interest, according to the possibilites that is has available.

Those possibilites are refined by the feedback from the other members of society.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#136

Post by kbenson »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #33

After watching the documentary "13th" on Netflix recently, I wondered about how the US prison population affected this. Something like 1 out of 100 people in the US are in prison, which must be close to 2 out of 100 men. And another chunk of people who's function in society is to monitor those in jail. Plus the difficulties of getting a job as a felon. Seemed like all put together must have a serious impact on produc…

> Something like 1 out of 100 people in the US are in prison, which must be close to 2 out of 100 men.

Wait, doesn't that mean that mean that twice as many men are in prison as people are in prison?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#137

Post by cableshaft »

vrtx0 wrote: post #114

I'm one of these missing men. I'm currently 35, and have been working as a software engineer since I was 19. Two years ago, I started experiencing excruciating, unrelenting low back pain that eventually required me to leave my job and go on long term disability. I loved my job. I worked at MongoDB in Palo Alto for 3 years, contributing to the core database (C++) and designed a performance testing platform (among othe…

I went through something similar the past couple of years, and was letting my back determine job prospects (i.e. I didn't want to take a train downtown and walk five blocks to work, hell I didn't want to walk to the parking garage next to my building).

For me (and possibly only me, I don't know your situation), what worked better than anything was to start eating a keto (low carb, and incidentally no wheat) diet, which some attribute to having anti-inflammatory effects: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/01/low-back-pain-chiropra.... The pain went away very quickly (for me within a week of starting the diet) and I can walk normally again.

I'm not saying it will work for you, I don't know, but I've been on the diet for four months now, and the pain hasn't returned since. You might want to consider it. It significantly improved my life. I also lost 40lbs as well in that time period, with not a whole lot of exercise, which I'm hoping will help insure the pain doesn't come back in the future.

It's awful and it dictates your life when you have it, I know. I hope you figure out what's wrong and find something that works for you.

Also, if nothing else, I noticed that I could stay in the pool pretty much as long as I wanted when I had back pain, due to its buoyancy effect, so when I did have back pain, I got my exercise in by going to the pool regularly, and found relief from my pain while I was in there. You might want to consider that for weight loss as well.

If you are interested in keto, check out http://www.reddit.com/r/keto. It's a great source of information, motivation, and similar stories such as mine by real people, not paid endorsements.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#138

Post by reverend_gonzo »

mfoy_ wrote: post #98
reverend_gonzo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, there is so much entitlement in this post I don't even know where to start. No, you don't NEED an Apple iPhone, and a TV with Netflix, and Amazon, and a Gant sweater. There are thousands of families that are surviving just fine without any of that. We have survived for centuries without external entertainment, and suddenly, you NEED this so you don't get bored? Why not have a conversation with your wife. Sit d…

I agree that GP is deluded and entitled. Not to absolve him of his own responsibility for his decisions, but there are very strong forces out there proactively pushing this mindset on people. Companies spend insane amounts of money trying to convince more people that they "need" their products. It's not even just ads and commercials that are guilty of this. Most mainstream media assumes the "American Dream" happens t…

Absolutely. Society itself is caught up in material possessions, and hell, we are bombarded by so much marketing, that we believe we need all these new things. I get caught up in it myself, but at some point in their lives, people need to take responsibility for themselves.

The original poster wants everything and expects to be given everything. Whats worse is he thinks previous generations had it so easy, and can't realize the sacrifices they had to make.

Owning a house was one of the things that everybody aspired to, which meant they set aside money every month, and maybe after ten or twenty years of solid savings, they could afford the down payment, and buy a house.

OP is thinking of pre-2008 days, where clown and his cat was flipping houses, but that was not a normal market, and most of them lost it anyways.

He need to figure out what his priorities are: Does he want to own his own home, save for retirement, or live the latest, greatest gadgets?

If he wants everything, there's a simple solution. Find how to make more money than the people he hangs out with.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#139

Post by Prefinem »

Brybry wrote: post #106
andrepd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

You paint a bit of a false dichotomy there with the starvation scenario. You can easily have a system where a large number of people are unemployed and everyone still gets fed and employed people don't feel resentment. Do you think men resented their wives for the centuries when it was normal for wives to be homemakers? I would hope not.

Do you think wives were idle all day at home?

It's one thing to be in the work force vs being at home and idle, and it's another to be in the work force vs at home clean / caring for children, etc.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#140

Post by wu-ikkyu »

barrkel wrote: post #54
jokoon wrote: post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

Poe's law strikes again. Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch. I think that, to protect your ego against accusations of laziness, you've projected this idea of society as a pointless activity, so you can defend to yourself your choices. It is self-delusional.

>Nobody owes you a living. "Contributing to the labour force" isn't a religion; it is a necessary condition of life, without which we starve. There's no free lunch...It is self-delusional

100 years ago this may have been true, but there has been this great thing called automation (letting machines do our work for us) which has flourished over the past century (especially in the area of food production).

Food production is a solved problem. ~40% of food goes wasted in the US every year.

So no, we don't need "all hands on deck" to keep us from starving anymore. Insisting on such in the face of obvious surplus and an obesity epidemic is what is delusional.

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