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Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

bloomberg.com

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Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#91

Post by rsync »

dabeeeenster wrote: post #9
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Completely agree (I'm also European). When Porsche unveiled the Mission E, they made spec comparisons to the Tesla Model S. But the Mission E is a concept, slated for 2020! VW/Audi, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes need to take a long hard look at themselves. The market is changing way faster than they expected IMO. Just sell a bloody 250 mile range car I can buy for £25k. That's it. It's not hard. Do it, now. Not in 3 year…

"But the Mission E is a concept, slated for 2020!"

... that will be quietly dumped in a year or two, just in time for a new "company changing electric initiative" in 2018, with production slated for 2024.

I hope they save these press releases and just put in new dates - it would be a shame to rewrite them every three years.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#92

Post by XJOKOLAT »

mikeash wrote: post #75
dorito_chimp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very odd statement to make. Most people like the reassurance/range-security of being able to visit a gas station in addition to having an electrical engine. That's supposed to be a selling point of the car over Tesla even though it's electrical range sucks and Tesla's extensive supercharger network all but removes range anxiety.

I thought the selling point of the i8 over the Tesla is that the i8 is a proper sports car with BMW handling, and for the i3 the selling point is that it's way cheaper.

Test drove both - P90D had the i8 beat in every department except maybe looks. And even there there's an argument to be had.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#93

Post by XJOKOLAT »

dpark wrote: post #87
Brakenshire wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one the other day in my town, and liked the look of it. It does look wonky in photo shoots, but people don't look at cars in the same way in real life.

The i3? It looks exactly as wierd to me in real life as it does in photos. It's like they crossed a BMW, a Fiat, and a Roomba.

Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it.

Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#94

Post by XJOKOLAT »

dpark wrote: post #87
Brakenshire wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one the other day in my town, and liked the look of it. It does look wonky in photo shoots, but people don't look at cars in the same way in real life.

The i3? It looks exactly as wierd to me in real life as it does in photos. It's like they crossed a BMW, a Fiat, and a Roomba.

Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it.

Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#95

Post by XJOKOLAT »

dpark wrote: post #87
Brakenshire wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one the other day in my town, and liked the look of it. It does look wonky in photo shoots, but people don't look at cars in the same way in real life.

The i3? It looks exactly as wierd to me in real life as it does in photos. It's like they crossed a BMW, a Fiat, and a Roomba.

Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it.

Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#96

Post by fabrice_d »

martin_bech wrote: post #69
raphaelj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And everybody knows that Model S is not an expensive car.

For the performance and features, it is in no way expensive. The P100DL beats a Lamborghini Huracan off the line up to 100mph+ at a fraction of the cost. Disclosure I own a Models S 85D.

Sure, but you're not gonna do a race lap at full speed with a Tesla. These 0 to 100 numbers don't tell the full performance story at all.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#97

Post by sangnoir »

S_A_P wrote: post #21
aembleton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst this is possible, it would be better to build an electric specific model. This is because an electric model doesn't need a fuel tank or an engine block but it will need a large number of batteries. Unilike a fuel tank these could be distributed evenly across the base of the car, lowering the centre of gravity. A 320e wouldn't have this base to store the batteries, but it could store them under the bonnet but t…

This is a key point. Tesla's main advantage so far is a purpose built electric car platform. It makes a huge difference in how things are packaged. One of the reasons for teslas great handling despite its size and heft is the low center of gravity the battery pack affords. Cramming batteries into the space previously occupied by a gas tank makes for less total capacity and depending on the location turns the car into…

> Notice how most established car companies have tried this approach and end up with electric ranges of 10-80 miles.

To rebut this - the article has a link to a Kriesel-modified 'Scoda Yeti' that can go up to 350km/217miles[1]. So the advantages of purpose-built models don't seem to include 'range'.

1. http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/projects/electric-yeti-4x4...

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#98

Post by __michaelg »

rsync wrote: post #89
raphaelj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars.

"Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars." Audi has a A3-etron which is not an electric car. Maybe they have some $500k etron-R8 but I am not sure if they ever built that. BMW has the i3 which is kind of interesting, in a low-production-run, dip-your-toe-in-the-market kind of way. i8 is not an electric car. Some hybrids. Who cares. Volkswagen has the e-golf which, in a sense, is mo…

> I don't know anything about Peugeot. Probably hybrids so who cares.

YTD in Germany, Renault sold twice as many purely electric cars (1836 Zoes) as Tesla (978 Model S and 56 Model X.)

Source: https://www.goingelectric.de/zulassungszahlen/2016/ (in German only, sorry; data is coming from Germany's DOT)

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#99

Post by fma »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #52
vinay427 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original rationale behind requiring cars to be sold through dealers was to regulate the market and create competition among different dealers. Without that requirement, manufacturers could easily undercut dealers due to lower overhead. I'm not really sure what the point of car dealers is, but they have somehow found a way to prove themselves "necessary" to some lawmakers in…

> I'm not really sure what the point of car dealers is From a DOJ analysis: > Auto production is a capital-intensive business and a franchise system allowed manufacturers to concentrate their resources upstream while accessing capital through franchise fees from independent entrepreneurs at the retail level. Given capital availability and resources at the time, it made sense for the auto makers to franchise. https://…

It's a rationale explanation and I see a part of it. It's not like McDonalds, where they have a corporate owned store and a franchisee store. Any price difference would be measured in nickels and no one is going to drive to the other side of the city to buy a burger. But if a corporate dealer can knock off $1,000 on a car just because there is no middle man, I can see why no one would want to franchise a dealership.

It's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#100

Post by macns »

lucideer wrote: post #36
scribu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "the whole point of going electric" that even Tesla is missing?

He didn't say Tesla is missing the point, he said they are at least getting the point in marketing terms. That is, that the switch away from fossil fuels is bigger than stories about petty details of industry competition, it's about the environment, and about orchestrating a radical shift in driving culture in general. Musk markets Tesla as changing the world, while their competitors market themselves as... competito…

That's exactly what I was trying to say thank you. I'm not a native english speaker so I'm struggling with the right choice of words and overall sentence structure which often confuses others.
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