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Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

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Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#21

Post by S_A_P »

aembleton wrote: post #17
sangnoir wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is what they say their advantage is against tesla. So be it, but I doubt it is revolutionnary. Another advantage that is unstated in the article is that this moves the choice of electric vehicles from specific models to optional trim levels: instead of having to choose between the BMW 3 series and the i3, one could choose between the 320, 320d or the 320e

Whilst this is possible, it would be better to build an electric specific model. This is because an electric model doesn't need a fuel tank or an engine block but it will need a large number of batteries. Unilike a fuel tank these could be distributed evenly across the base of the car, lowering the centre of gravity. A 320e wouldn't have this base to store the batteries, but it could store them under the bonnet but t…

This is a key point. Tesla's main advantage so far is a purpose built electric car platform. It makes a huge difference in how things are packaged. One of the reasons for teslas great handling despite its size and heft is the low center of gravity the battery pack affords. Cramming batteries into the space previously occupied by a gas tank makes for less total capacity and depending on the location turns the car into a pendulum. Notice how most established car companies have tried this approach and end up with electric ranges of 10-80 miles. It's only just now that car makers are following teslas approach and getting above 100 miles per charge up to 2-300 miles. IMO the on time release of the model 3 will determine if tesla survives or gets acquired/fails.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#22

Post by macns »

Elon Musk when asked what he things about a specific BMW concept car (hubrid or full electric I can't really remember), said that it was a step towards the right direction.

So I guess this too is a step closer to a cleaner earth. What bugs me though is the mentality of some big automakers or even nations, they seem to be making steps to compete with tesla to put it in a polite way. They're missing the whole point of going electric; I'm not implying that Tesla does not, but they sure do look better in marketing terms - to my eyes.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#23

Post by yabatopia »

Swizec wrote: post #12
koonsolo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to build entire cars, because there are plenty of good car builders in Europe (which already seem to be their customers) Tesla now has an edge on the technology front, but once the traditional European brands pick up, with technology that is better than Tesla (as assumed in the article), the question is if Tesla can keep it's market position. (This is in my opinion the main idea of the article) I agre…

The way auto industry has been going in recent decades, the most probable outcome is that Tesla merges with one of the main 10 vehicle manufacturing groups. Yes there are only 10 real players on the market. Toyota already owns 10% of Tesla. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#Top_vehicl...

And yet in the article Kreisel Electric GmbH claims it’s fielding 20 inquiries a day from automotive icons including BMW and Volkswagen. I guess their phones remain silent for the four remaining days in a week.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#24

Post by reacweb »

Maarten88 wrote: post #16
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Agree. I think an underestimated advantage Tesla has over the traditional car makers is their software process. Tesla just released version 8, and rolled it out to all their customers. Traditional manufacturers must recall cars to fix a software problem, and charge customers for software upgrades. I guess it's hard for traditional car manufacturers to offer an integrated experience like that, you need to design a car…

Yes. All the stories I ear about software developed by traditional car makers confirm your point. Traditional car makers produce very bad software and have very bad organisation for software development.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#25

Post by denzil_correa »

raphaelj wrote: post #8
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars.

How do these electric cars compare against Tesla?

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#26

Post by valuegram »

Maarten88 wrote: post #16
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Agree. I think an underestimated advantage Tesla has over the traditional car makers is their software process. Tesla just released version 8, and rolled it out to all their customers. Traditional manufacturers must recall cars to fix a software problem, and charge customers for software upgrades. I guess it's hard for traditional car manufacturers to offer an integrated experience like that, you need to design a car…

True. I have a Chevy volt, which I love. The check engine light came on while under powertrain warranty. It took them 5 days to upgrade the software to fix the problem, and they charged me for it since "software isn't part of the drivetrain."

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#27

Post by 0xFFC »

Maarten88 wrote: post #16
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Agree. I think an underestimated advantage Tesla has over the traditional car makers is their software process. Tesla just released version 8, and rolled it out to all their customers. Traditional manufacturers must recall cars to fix a software problem, and charge customers for software upgrades. I guess it's hard for traditional car manufacturers to offer an integrated experience like that, you need to design a car…

I anticipate (and hope) Google and other software vendor can step in and fill this void.

By the time other car makers going to release any serious competitor to Tesla , Tesla's software will be far advanced than those companies, and the thing about software is its design and implementation takes professional teams with a lot of experience. No matter how effective and advanced your team is, you need time to create a professional team to make mature software.

So the idea of other car makers somehow magically will design and implement software as mature as Tesla's , is wishful thinking I think.But software companies like Google, Microsoft, etc have required expertise in software development.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#28

Post by [deleted] »

Maarten88 wrote: post #16
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Agree. I think an underestimated advantage Tesla has over the traditional car makers is their software process. Tesla just released version 8, and rolled it out to all their customers. Traditional manufacturers must recall cars to fix a software problem, and charge customers for software upgrades. I guess it's hard for traditional car manufacturers to offer an integrated experience like that, you need to design a car…

[deleted]

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#29

Post by 0xFFC »

zyx321 wrote: post #13
dabeeeenster wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree (I'm also European). When Porsche unveiled the Mission E, they made spec comparisons to the Tesla Model S. But the Mission E is a concept, slated for 2020! VW/Audi, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes need to take a long hard look at themselves. The market is changing way faster than they expected IMO. Just sell a bloody 250 mile range car I can buy for £25k. That's it. It's not hard. Do it, now. Not in 3 year…

>It's not hard. If it's so easy why don't you do it? Let me guess, you've never designed, built, or shipped any physical product. You're like a first-year art student 'designing' the next iPhone in a 3D rendering program (Half as thick, with twice the battery life! Indestructible edge-to-edge screen!)

I see what you are saying and I partially agree with it. But the point is Audi,BMW,etc they are not first year art student. They have billion dollar R&D budget.

Update:

And keep in mind Tesla is not product of yesterday. Vibe for electronic car was around I think much longer than Tesla.But big names (Audi,BMW,etc) just ignored it for so long (maybe because of no serious competitor or corruptness -why do they need to work on something revolutionary when they are market leaders) until some guy stepped in and challeged them seriously.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#30

Post by zyx321 »

0xFFC wrote: post #29
zyx321 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not hard. If it's so easy why don't you do it? Let me guess, you've never designed, built, or shipped any physical product. You're like a first-year art student 'designing' the next iPhone in a 3D rendering program (Half as thick, with twice the battery life! Indestructible edge-to-edge screen!)

I see what you are saying and I partially agree with it. But the point is Audi,BMW,etc they are not first year art student. They have billion dollar R&D budget. Update: And keep in mind Tesla is not product of yesterday. Vibe for electronic car was around I think much longer than Tesla.But big names (Audi,BMW,etc) just ignored it for so long (maybe because of no serious competitor or corruptness -why do they need to…

And they evidently are working on it. But to say "release it now, don't make me wait 5 years" is beyond ignorant.
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