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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#121

Post by [deleted] »

reitanqild wrote: post #77
NTDF9 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I'm not trying to 'balance' anything out. Equality means equal regardless of gender. So if one can have "Ask a female athlete", why not "Ask a male athlete". Your example is valid too. This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want?

> This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want? While I do care a lot I don't identify with the typical "SJW", so I think this should be perfectly OK, only very boring so I wouldn't create it.

[deleted]

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#122

Post by MollyR »

enigmango wrote: post #113
MollyR wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. This is bad advice. If the whole team is going, sure, but as a woman this sounds like the setup to a date. Really hope guys reading this article, understand a lot of women are different, and to take what they are saying with a grain of salt.

Please correct me if I'm wrong - I think phrasing the request appropriately is a big part of this, and could mitigate a lot of potential misunderstanding. Something like: "Would you be interested getting coffee sometime?" Definitely sounds like a date setup to me, so framing it as (1) more immediate than a planned date, and (2) work related would be much better. Something more like: "I'm going to grab some coffee in…

It's honestly hard to tell sometimes. People are emotionally complex, and life is messy. But there is a reason office romances typically have HR rules in a lot of companies.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#123

Post by mod »

Swizec wrote: post #53
roflc0ptic wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reading this as sarcastic. While there's some remote chance this could be misinterpreted, there's a remote chance that talking to any woman at all at any point could be misinterpreted as prurient interest. It's sort of a boring point. Realistically, the conversation can go something like "hey, i'm going to the break area for coffee, wanna come?" ... "So how is your work going?" ... "Huh, that sounds ... Anything…

> you can have this entire conversation without bringing up that they're a woman Exactly! Talk to them like they're a person. It's not that hard. You'd be surprised how refreshing women find it when you talk to them like they're a person, not a "woman". At least based on what they've told me when I took that approach. Maybe they lied ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The idea is that you treat them like people, not like a bag of stereotypes…

But this is on a thread titled "Ask a Female Engineer!"

I'm with you, treat 'em like they're people. And quit distinguishing them as different, like TFA.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#124

Post by whamlastxmas »

grace_engineer wrote: post #89
exolymph wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this. It's weird to single out women and it's equally weird to not include women. The whole point of these discussions and elaborate rigmaroles is to treat people the same regardless of gender.

Hello, I am Grace. Please include women in the workplace. Talk to us. Don't omit us. If you aren't sure if it's HR appropriate to talk to women at your workplace please check with your HR team. I hope your HR team will encourage you to talk to women and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, I hope your HR team will encourage you to ask if there’s an…

I have a lot of respect for the concepts discussed here, but as a side note "check with your HR team" is a pretty bad idea in most cases. As it's often said, HR is there to protect the company. Not to help employees. Approaching HR with the question "Is it ok to talk to women?" is going to make that HR employee make a note in your file that you're potentially causing a harassing environment and there's documentation of you specifically targeting female employees. Not to mention, it sounds like a loaded a question. The type of thing someone would ask after a woman sounded offended or rebuked him, and the guy is going to HR to try to preemptively do damage control and get his side of the story out first.

Don't go to HR with your problems, it can only hurt you. If you're the victim of something inappropriate in the workplace, seek outside legal advice and follow their direction in communicating with HR.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#125

Post by Mz »

rcba wrote: post #6

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women…

The primary thing men need to do is become more self aware of ways in which they unintentionally exclude women and stop doing that.

I am a bit leery of your description of trying to encourage more male peers to do more to make their organizations more diverse. In my experience, trying to be inclusive is generally a poor approach to this problem space. Just work on not being exclusive and the people who want to be there will show up, in essence.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#126

Post by crapolasplatter »

hnbroseph wrote: post #101
crapolasplatter wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that are down voting, care to expand on why? Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics are irrelevant or less important when it comes to engineering: fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black?

i can't downvote but: > I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering that expression is too vague to really say anything about. there exist "minority groups" in various fields (such as "male nurses"), and said groups sometimes have distinct life experiences and insights as a result, including their relationship with the "majority group". > Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics a…

"that expression is too vague to really say anything about"

The same goes for "Ask a Female Engineer" hence I wanted more information about other non engineering characteristics such as her height,weight, color, height, etc.

"this seems non-sequitur or a strawman"

Its not a strawman it was a valid question , why did she only decide to single out her sex. Why not disclose her weight,height,color,etc?

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#127

Post by marxidad »

benclarkwood wrote: post #33

It is good to see YC trying to use its platform to move this discussion forward, but I think that the title of the series is inherently troublesome. Referring to women software engineers as female software engineers is reductive and dehumanizing. Men are not usually referred to as “males”. Frankly, it sounds like a Ferenghi.

Male is the neutral default.

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/02/16/male-as-the...

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#128

Post by Mz »

wmeredith wrote: post #26

On attending a meeting as a female engineer... "I immediately figure out who is likely to hear me out based on our previous interactions. Then I’ll purposefully sit somewhere near those allies. If I’m feeling less confident when I’m speaking, I’ll look at them first. I’m less likely to even speak up in meetings where I don’t feel like I have supportive people. I don’t often feel like I’m not heard at meetings, but I…

Thank you very much for saying that. Sincerely. I am a woman and insight into how men experience doing business has been far more valuable to me than most of the stuff like this article. It has been incredibly valuable for me to know that specific negatives I experience are normal and not about my gender and it has helped me move forward on things that matter to me. It helps me sort the wheat from the chaff.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#129

Post by Mz »

gjolund wrote: post #103

Here's my question: "Why do you feel the need to constantly bring up your gender?"

"Because it is clear to me that it has caused problems in male dominated environments. I find it works better to take the bull by the horns and deal with that head on than to try to pretend I am not being treated differently when I am, in fact, being treated differently.

Thank you for asking."

(I am a woman, but not an engineer, fwiw.)

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#130

Post by fasdf »

houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

This did happen to me once. I asked someone to a general get-to-know-you coffee and she spent the next two years mentioning her boyfriend to me and even mentioning a couple of times that she liked me as a friend but didn't want to date me. I thought it best not to mention that my interest in dating her was equally low.
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