Live data from Hacker News

Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

themacro.com

71–80 of 491 posts

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#71

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

I have to agree with this, in that depending on length on circumstances, it could be taken as putting out the feelers for a date, even if that is not either party's intention.

The easiest way to get around this is to go as a group. Don't make it one-on-one.

This isn't only specifically about tip-toeing around a gender-related situation. I don't mind grabbing coffee/drinks with close colleagues of any gender, one-on-one, because that's the time we shoot the shit about stuff that doesn't need to be heard in-office (e.g. venting, likely). But if an acquaintance wants to get a one-on-one coffee, I feel justified in assuming we're going to be talking shop, like "Hey, I have this project idea, what do you think" or some other implicit solicitation.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#74
post #6

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women…

> How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem

There is, objectively, different representations of different groups in engineering.

There is no objective reason to think that this is a "problem".

Whether it's a problem, a feature, or just an unimportant fact derives from one's value system...and different value systems are just that: different.

To assume that this is a problem - that it's obviously and necessarily a problem - skips past the fact that there are different opinions, and - values being values - no way to prove one set right and one set wrong.

We might as well talk about the "chocolate icecream" problem, or the "punk rock" problem.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#75

It is good to see YC trying to use its platform to move this discussion forward, but I think that the title of the series is inherently troublesome. Referring to women software engineers as female software engineers is reductive and dehumanizing. Men are not usually referred to as “males”. Frankly, it sounds like a Ferenghi.

I completely disagree. "Female" and "male" are adjectives. "Women" and "men" are plural nouns. "Women software engineers" isn't even grammatically correct.

[noun profession]: man painter - someone who paints a man.

[adjective profession]: male painter - a man who paints.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#76

I would like to ask a female engineer some things. 1) do you think there are more men in engineering exclusively as a result of men being prejudiced against women? 2) do you think your male co-workers are less qualified to be engineers because they were hired for their gender? 3) one of the engineers in this article said she felt uncomfortable being aware of being the only female. Can anyone explain what causes the d…

My understanding of the answer to (2) is that the bar isn't substantially lowered; rather, more males are considered.

This happens for lots of reasons -- as a white dude, if I refer people, a majority of my programmer friends are white dudes. That's fine. But if you care about diversity, you can look for other qualified programmers via different channels [new grads, especially from a place like CMU [1]].

Similar things oftentimes sway conferences so that the lineup of speakers is skewed more than the actual demographics of individuals in the associated field.

I presume conference-creators aren't being malicious, they're just not trying to be diverse [A]. Some of this may also be a result of common personality traits. Some women might not feel qualified to speak about a subject when another person [with an identical background] would. This can happen because "men overestimate their abilities and performance, and women underestimate both." [2]

Thus you'll have bias in the # of people who respond to a call for proposals.

[1]: http://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2016/february/women...

[2]: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/05/the-conf...

[A] Why is this a problem? Partially because of your question (3). Lack of diversity at a conference makes diverse people feel uncomfortable / unwelcome. This creates a feedback loop, as well. Mostly men ==> activities men are interested ==> only men attend conferences.

I imagine conferences are best if they can enrich everyone interested. Providing videos for people who can't attend, making people who want to come feel welcome, etc

NB there's lots of great literature about intersectionality, so much of this doesn't just apply to the male/female issue. For more reading, check out some of these: http://theteej.tumblr.com/post/122334039549/hi-white-friends...

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#77
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try rather with: "ask a male nurse". That is more comparable, i.e.: both are perfectly normal, but both are not too common for historical and possibly other reasons.

But I'm not trying to 'balance' anything out. Equality means equal regardless of gender. So if one can have "Ask a female athlete", why not "Ask a male athlete". Your example is valid too. This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want?

> This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want?

While I do care a lot I don't identify with the typical "SJW", so I think this should be perfectly OK, only very boring so I wouldn't create it.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#78

The more attention you draw on diversity, the less diversity you receive. Diversity is supposed to be impartial and tolerant, yet it seems the prescribed approach is to carve out separate "spaces" for different feelings and situations. How is this building bridges in the so-called "gender divide"? True diversity is complete and utter impartiality. Why are we focusing on all these useless, pretty, inspirational soluti…

I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this:

> attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought

It's a forcing function. I really think that the current plan is the most logical approach given the current situation; though, we do need to eventually move away from it. Exactly when is going to be hard to nail down; too soon and everyone will revert to their sexist ways, too late and it's ceremony - not change.

In lieu of what you are saying, everyone needs to come to the table. This type of thing also needs to go away:

> Ada: [...] Otherwise I get home at night and realize I haven’t heard another woman’s voice all day.

I understand where she's coming from, though. As a trailblazer it might be hard when you realize that you are alone.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#79

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

Even if it's not misinterpreted by her, it could be misinterpreted by friends / colleagues / SO's if either of you are married or in a serious relationship. Inter-gender relationships are hard :( I'm reminded of this xkcd[0], 'Hooray! we've solved the problem of drama!'

[0] https://xkcd.com/592/

EDIT: I should add a bit of context. I am self employed as a contractor, but my 'boss' at my biggest client - the one that pays the bills - is a woman who is close to my age. We are both married. I would be a little bit uncomfortable going to lunch or coffee one-on-one with her, not because I question her intentions but because I'd rather not be seen on what could be interpreted as a 'date' with someone other than my wife in my community.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#80

On attending a meeting as a female engineer... "I immediately figure out who is likely to hear me out based on our previous interactions. Then I’ll purposefully sit somewhere near those allies. If I’m feeling less confident when I’m speaking, I’ll look at them first. I’m less likely to even speak up in meetings where I don’t feel like I have supportive people. I don’t often feel like I’m not heard at meetings, but I…

Because any aspect of the human condition as experienced by women, or minorities, or anyone really, is a problem unique to that sub-group. Apparently. And needs to be explicitly called out as a problem. I don't get it. I mean, as a middle-aged white guy in an affluent society with social welfare and healthcare I've never experienced anything uncomfortable, of course. Never experienced anything unpleasant.

Come on, man. How many middle-aged white guys, or white guys, or just guys, have you seen hounded out of our industry by death threats and rape threats? I despise identity politics, but I kind of think you have to be trying pretty hard not to see that there's a problem here.
Post reply on HN