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Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

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Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#121

Post by Nursie »

CoryG89 wrote: post #115
Nursie wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Plenty of people would pair a nice red with their pasta even if it had no other impact on their mental faculties If it had no effect they likely wouldn't have acquired the taste, so I doubt very much they would in significant numbers, no. There is an element of flavoir choice. But just look at how many concoctions there are that are, at least the popular ones, designed specifically to make drinking alcohol a more…

For the most part I would agree with you, but historically this hasn't always been the case. Before modern times, the quality of water was terrible pretty much everywhere. Because of this, many regularly drank alcoholic drinks instead of water because it was cleaner due to the alcohol it contained. Although they weren't drinking it because it paired well with their pasta, many times they also weren't drinking it beca…

While this is true, there might not have been much alcohol or much flavour in small beer.

And it's probably the boiling proces that really saved them, they just didn't know!

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#122

Post by Nursie »

kgwgk wrote: post #113
Nursie wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? The post you reply to compares alcohol and LSD. The abstract of the linked paper says that heroin is one of the most harmful drugs, more so than alcohol to the user, but grouped with alcohol in terms of harm to others.

> Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? Maybe he read it in the message he was replying to? "Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances"

Then his (and your) grasp of grammar is a little off. The conversation until then had been contrasting LSD and booze.

Alcohol is most definitely the more destructive of those two.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#123

Post by CoryG89 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #71
tigershark wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.

First, it is pretty rare for folks to take LSD daily, outside of the current trend of microdosing for treating depression, etc. In this case, it seems generally no more faulty than a glass of wine a day. Besides, this is comparing apples to oranges - you'd need to compare an alcoholic, drinking vodka, to the daily user for that to be an apt comparison. And honestly, at that point I'm not too sure who I want to spend…

I'm not sure where they are getting their 25% figure for heroin in your linked article. They link to yet another article as a source, but I see no mention of the 25% there.

The claim seems to be that only 25% of people who try the drug once will end up being addicts. While I doubt this claim in itself, I think this percentage would go way up if you looked only at people who had reasonable access/resources to acquire more of the drug.

If you keep doing heroin (or any opiate) and have the access/resources to get more, you will get addicted.

It may take a few successive uses within a given amount of time, but beyond that you will have physical withdrawal symptoms, 100% of the time.

This is not the same as alcohol, pot, or LSD, all of which are not physically addictive in the same way.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#124

Post by ievahanordah »

"I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right"."

To do that you have to posses it first, which is a felony. Felony != "human right". Whatever the fuck a "human right" even is supposed to mean. Dumbass

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#125

Post by atom-morgan »

ievahanordah wrote: post #124

"I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right"." To do that you have to posses it first, which is a felony. Felony != "human right". Whatever the fuck a "human right" even is supposed to mean. Dumbass

Possession being a felony doesn't mean it's right.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#127

Post by alanwatts »

_bdog wrote: post #52
JohnTHaller wrote: post #11

Those infamous 'carrier weight' LSD laws where the weight of what the single drop of LSD is on counts as part of the drug in calculating the sentencing. And it's not even the dumbest 'war on drugs' law in our arsenal of dumb 'war on drugs' laws.

About the dumbness in the "war on drugs": There is a nice scene in the documentary "Le route de l'opium", where they interview, I believe the guy responsible for europol drugwar coordination. They ask why the laws and system are like this if they are so incredibly stupid and not working. His answer: Because this is the way many individuals earn the most money with it. Change anything and manufacturers, dealers, corru…

Economics 101: increased risk = increased reward

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#128

Post by CoryG89 »

Nursie wrote: post #102
tigershark wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely no. It may be true to some extent for alcohol abuse . Saying that alcohol is objectively more harmful and dangerous than many/most illegal drugs is simply an outrageous lie. I never saw anyone die for a glass of wine a day, I guess that there is plenty of cases of death for regular drugs users. It's simply disconcerting that you encourage the use of illegal drugs saying that are not dangerous on a public w…

Sorry you disagree but the data really isn't on your side here. I'm not sure why you find it offending. The line between alcohol use and abuse is a very fine one, plenty of people cross it all the time. Many of them end up dead. If you look at all the people who try, say, cannabis, and count who gets addicted and who dies or gets sick from it, then compare those percentages to alcohol, alcohol comes out far, far wors…

Alcohol is not physically addictive in the same way opiates or cocaine is addictive. It's silly to be scared of becoming "addicted" to alcohol.

After many years of abuse, alcoholics can get to the point that their bodies dont function properly without some alcohol, but they already have to have a problem for many years to get to that point.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#129

Post by smcl »

ultramancool wrote: post #109
smcl wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "nothing to do with any ailments"?

Just that the harm caused by it is not a major factory in its legal status.

AH ok - I wasn't sure if you were suggesting it wasn't responsible for any health issues, but quite the opposite :)

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#130

Post by CoryG89 »

tigershark wrote: post #101
Nursie wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that alcohol is objectively more dangerous and more harmful than many/most illegal drugs. It has both acute and chronic health effects, it's addictive and it causes (or at least facilitates) all sorts of social problems including a lot of violence. It kills its users and its users sometimes kill or hurt other people when under its influence. It always amazes me how willing people are to overlook the evil…

Absolutely no. It may be true to some extent for alcohol abuse . Saying that alcohol is objectively more harmful and dangerous than many/most illegal drugs is simply an outrageous lie. I never saw anyone die for a glass of wine a day, I guess that there is plenty of cases of death for regular drugs users. It's simply disconcerting that you encourage the use of illegal drugs saying that are not dangerous on a public w…

There are plenty of drugs other than alcohol that can safely be taken regularly. Legality and safety aren't correlated at all, at least in the US.

I've never seen anyone die from a joint per day. Plenty of other drugs are the same. They can all be dangerous, including alcohol, if you take enough of it or take it too frequently.

> I guess that in some countries it may be even a crime

Not in any country I would want to be in. Who needs freedom of speech anyway?

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