How easily could communication systems be neutralized today with internet and GSM phone networks ?
Coup attempt underway in Turkey
321–330 of 375 posts
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#322Turkey had its chance. Ersogan proves that islamhas a much longer road to go still.
I've gone through too much tonight to bother say anything about your ignorance. But sitting and waiting won't earn anything to anybody. Turkey as a member would be useful to EU. However if we had a popular vote now on whether to bother continue the negotiations, it'd certainly come out no, because the demeaning, hubristic, and unstable approach of the EU in our regards.
People hate change and anything that challenges their current perceptions. Don't take it too personally.
I completely agree with what you've said regardless of whether I want it to be false. The EU certainly requires some changing as yet.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
A democratic arm that rules the country day-to-day, and a "benevolent dictatorship" that will overthrow the democratic arm if it violates the country's "fundamental principles" Exactly (part of) why I'm in support of the monarchy in the UK. If push came to shove, the armed forces swear their allegiance to the British monarch, not the government (I'm from an army family and know this is taken seriously). We have attai…
>If push came to shove, the armed forces swear their allegiance to the British monarch, I really find it difficult to believe its a desirable state of affairs that the army in a 'democracy' swears allegiance to a hereditary monarch, and that its good, if as you say, people in the army take that seriously. What if the interests of the monarch conflicted with the interests of the people? In some sense that meant 'push…
> What if the interests of the monarch conflicted with the interests of the people?
In that case, the military's natural tendency to side with the people and the nominal legitimacy of the democratic leader would likely trump some words spoken due to medieval traditions.
Ambiguity like that could get very messy, but that's exactly what makes it so unattractive for would-be despots to count on the military for internal power struggles.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#324Why did people support Hitler? Why do people support Trump? Why do people support Putin? Some people aren't very concerned with democratic principles; some people like the policy agenda and are willing to sacrifice democratic principles in order to get the policies they want; some people are gullible and believe scapegoat arguments; some people, particularly in times of insecurity, seek out a "strong man".
"Make ${country} strong again"
Works best in countries that used to be empires. (Un)fortunately, at one point or the other in history, most were.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#325Current status as reported by government of Turkey: - Coup attempt claimed to be unsuccessful. - About 1500 members of military arrested so far. Two senior generals will be tried for treason. - About 90 dead reported so far. - Heavy damage at parliament building and presidential palace. - Airports supposedly reopening soon. (Airport departure list shows "Delayed" for everything except one flight to Odessa.) [1] - If…
I found it very strange the coup makers did not attempt to round Erdogan up at his holiday home in Marmaris (or wherever he was).
They BOMBED the place, just after he left.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#326Weird. This coup of July 16 failed in exactly the same way as the coup against Hitler of July 20 failed - a small group of military sub-leadership, a failed bomb attack against the leader, a half-hearted attempt to secure the capital, all breaking down with the leader re-connecting with the non-cooperating rest of government and military. And now most likely horrible revenge against all involved. I always thought peo…
One possibility is that this was not a real coup but a power grab where an army faction was unwittingly manipulated by the government.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would consider the US approach fairly liberal, where everyone is free to do as they want as long as they're not affecting other people with their actions. France goes to the extreme level of saying "You can't even wear your religious clothing inside the school, even if you feel naked without it." How would you define liberalism?
Having been brought up in a French system and then going to a US college, I must say I strongly prefer the French system. I guess Americans would take offense to this view, but I find wearing religious clothing in a public institution such as a school incredibly obnoxious and pushy -- it's akin to your professor suddenly starting to push his/her political views onto you in an unrelated lecture, or something. It's not…
I know the feeling, in my eyes excessive display of religious affiliation in clothing tends to come over as a certain kind of smugness: "according to my values, i am infinitely superior to you godless crowd". Hardly the most respectful message to send, a bit like the difference between a vegan and a preaching vegan.
Still, if you'd want to put up legal barriers to displays of religion, you'd certainly need to find better reasons than "it makes people seem very arrogant" ;)
Schools, being places of science, might mandate non-religious clothing in the same way monasteries and temples should be free to set clothing regulation inside their premises.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#328Dear Turkish friends,
This is arguably not the best place and time for what I am about to say, but I am going to do it anyway.
Please know that if things continue the way they are, you are all welcome to Bulgaria. There is some scare mongering by local right-wing parties on the verge of the political spectrum, but we have about half a million ethnic Turks and over 98% of the population are positive towards them since they have been the most unproblematic and hard-working minority that is loyal to the Republic for our last century of independence. We are not paradise on Earth either, but at the very least you should be able to integrate well into our society and have a relatively hassle-free life in no time.
Of course, I don't wish you to be forced to leave your homeland and no normal person is interested in having an unstable and/or unreliable Turkey, but unfortunately things haven't been exactly improving with your current leadership… :(
Be safe!
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's ok, he doesn't want anyone else to sit at his place anyway.
Like any elected leader who want to serve their country. Not defending Erdogan here. Just being wary when people advocate for the removal of an authoritarian leader (Saddam, Assad...). It's easy to talk about free speech technologies when we enjoy the comfort we have. It's harder to look at history and try to have a conversation.
I don't understand what you mean.
The original comment was that it's ironic that Ergodan who is against social media (and thus block as much as he can) was using the very social media to stop the attempt.
How does that turn into "it's easy to talk about free speech technologies..." ?
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would consider the US approach fairly liberal, where everyone is free to do as they want as long as they're not affecting other people with their actions. France goes to the extreme level of saying "You can't even wear your religious clothing inside the school, even if you feel naked without it." How would you define liberalism?
French culture has some inconsistent, fascist, illiberalisms, especially in the differences of making fun of Christianity vs. making fun of Judaism, or similarly with Christianity vs. Islam. (govt demanding firing of Sine). Actual progressive liberalism should at least include listening to other viewpoints, being open to new ideas and generally being sensible and constructive. But narrow, identity-politics labels are…
Sine was basically implying the religion was nothing but a tool of social climbing in that particular case. That's just an incredibly nasty, low and personal thing.