Turkey had its chance. Ersogan proves that islamhas a much longer road to go still.
Coup attempt underway in Turkey
281–290 of 375 posts
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#282Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…
No. Erdogan called for people to take to the streets, and within an hour, the airport and bridge were filled with thousands of people waving flags. (From pictures, all male.) That's popular support. The military is not attacking the crowds. The military presence was apparently not that big, concentrating on a few key spots. A coup has to succeed within the first few hours. Control must be established before oppositio…
Turns out that it wasn't entirely, or even mostly. Erdogan's call that did it. The mosques turned on their call-to-prayer PA systems and ordered their followers into the streets.
[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying...
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#283Turkey had its chance. Ersogan proves that islamhas a much longer road to go still.
I've gone through too much tonight to bother say anything about your ignorance. But sitting and waiting won't earn anything to anybody. Turkey as a member would be useful to EU. However if we had a popular vote now on whether to bother continue the negotiations, it'd certainly come out no, because the demeaning, hubristic, and unstable approach of the EU in our regards.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#284It's same like Reichstag fire. Now Erdogan is more powerful to change constitution with presidential system. ps: I'm turkish
Completely agree.
For context: wince the foundation of the Turkish Republic in 1923, there have been periodic military coups, notably in 1960, 1980, and 1997. The army's stated purpose has always been to 'preserve the constitution and democracy', as it is this time. While I'm not in favor of the use of violent force to unseat a democratically elected government, the current government in Turkey is anything but. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Prime Minister from 2003 to 2014 and President since, has taken many pages out of the Putin playbook, turning the liberal, cosmopolitan Turkey (my former home) into an oppressive, corrupt dictatorship. He has jailed opponents, waged war on minorities, funneled money and arms to extremist groups in Iraq and Syria, built himself a palace worthy of a Sultan, changed the constitution, and vowed to keep himself in power until at least 2023 if not longer.
His party, the AKP, lost its majority in the democratic elections of June 2015, which were largely seen as a referendum on Erdogan's constitutional changes, designed to create an 'executive presidency' that would consolidate Erdogan's power (the Presidency had largely been a ceremonial role, as it is in most parliamentary democracies). The natural outcome of such an election should have been a coalition government and no executive presidency - but Erdogan refused to let his party compromise with any other, and instead called snap elections for November. He spent the ensuing months destabilizing the country by attacking the Kurdish minority in the southeast and stirring up trouble in Syria, provoking retaliatory attacks in Ankara and Istanbul. The elections in November delivered the AKP their majority again, in results that were widely considered suspicious if not outright rigged. In May of this year, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu refused to rubber stamp Erdogan's increasingly dictatorial demands and was forced to resign. His replacement is an Erdogan lackey.
It's too soon to tell who is behind the coup, and how likely it is to succeed. If it doesn't, I fear for the country as it will be mean further curtailment of freedoms, more violence, and economic destabilization. Like with the Reichstag fire, I doubt there will be enough proof to show it's a false flag operation for Erdogan to consolidate power, but I certainly wouldn't put it past him.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#285The crowds appear to have ejected the military from the TRT TV station, which is now back on the air. The studio is full of people.[1] So full that they can't get a clear shot of the presenter. This is history happening. Some general is being interviewed live in the middle of the crowd that's invaded the TV studio. It's all in Turkish, but a translation should be available later. [1] http://www.trt.net.tr/Anasayfa/ca…
The revolution will be televised. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGaoXAwl9kw
Gil Scott-Heron's message wasn't that you wouldn't see pictures on pages, or screens, from a revolution. The events he witnessed and lived through in the 1960s certainly were broadcast.
It's that you cannot see into the minds of those who are doing what it is they're doing, think what they're thinking, or feel what they're feeling. Pictures capture only the barest essence of the full reality.
A brief interview, late in his life, and much the worse for several drug addictions, explaining that point: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ4_JYI7_e8
More backstory on GSH: https://medium.com/cuepoint/why-gil-scott-heron-wrote-the-re...
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#286Amateur hour. They didn't capture or eliminate Erdogan in the first place. Then they failed to cut off internet and television within the country, so Erdogan was able to rally his supporters to the streets, and the soldiers were obviously (and rightfully) not willing to mow down mobs of civilians.
If you ever hoped to see Erdogan removed from power, this is the worst possible outcome. He will now use this as a pretext to solidify his strangehold on civil society, carry out a purge of disloyal elements of the army, and do whatever else he must to solidify his place as dictator for life.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sky News is interviewing a Turkish journalist right now, live ( http://news.sky.com/story/live-turkish-army-says-taken-power... ). She says she supports democracy , not Erdogan, and that she's appalled that a small number of soldiers can take that away from Turkey. She's also appalled that a NATO member has to deal with military coups... edit: the interview has just ended. I hope the clip can be found, because what t…
Not a Turkish journalist. She's a member of AKP, the party Erdogan founded. I'm appalled that Sky News would air such a biased source. The Turkish military is good for democracy. This isn't true for other countries.
Thanks for the clarification, I didn't understand she belonged to the same party. It certainly puts her opinions in perspective.
I'm not appalled Sky News let her speak, however. As someone outside Turkey myself, I'm not sure how censoring the opinions of any of the sides involved would help or be in any way unbiased reporting. I'd understand if you said it would be even better if Sky News also interviewed someone who supported the coup.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. Erdogan called for people to take to the streets, and within an hour, the airport and bridge were filled with thousands of people waving flags. (From pictures, all male.) That's popular support. The military is not attacking the crowds. The military presence was apparently not that big, concentrating on a few key spots. A coup has to succeed within the first few hours. Control must be established before oppositio…
Turns out that it wasn't entirely, or even mostly. Erdogan's call that did it. The mosques turned on their call-to-prayer PA systems and ordered their followers into the streets. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying...
It's disturbing that leaders (political or religious) would put their constituents in harms way.
I keep reading that Erdogan is popular, but I also read that he was elected with only 13% of the vote.
Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#289Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey
#290Article about CIA clairvoyance about coups a day before a coup. http://theweek.com/articles/635515/cia-team-clairvoyants
That's funny (but they don't mention Turkey). For some actual predictions, they link to the blog of one of the people being interviewed:
https://dartthrowingchimp.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/coup-fore...
I'm surprised to see Germany predicted at higher risk than the rest of Europe, and this was before signficant numbers of refugees entered Europe.