271–280 of 375 posts
Reporting from Ankara, capital. Ongoing sonic booms followed by bombings. Scary as hell. My niece is 8mo, in each jet and helicopter pass we take cover on her and we baricated home with tables. No one knows what is going on, and media claims control is in place.
News flash: Those in power and relying on laws, rules and democracy think it's a good idea it remains. Well it's completely obvious they would have this stance. I don't think they've really anything to add. Hopefully things stabilise one way or another over there, innocent people getting shot helps nobody. What's interesting though is whether this instability will affect Turkey's chances for a seat in the EU. I would…
How about Bosnia and Herzegovina? They're 51% muslim and have applied to join EU earlier this year.
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it is 5:12 AM right now in Turkey. Have you been up all night or did you just wake up?
We're all up here in Turkey, I haven't seen any houses with no lights. Kinda hard to sleep when there's a coup going on in your country...
Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…
I'm pretty sure at this point it will likely fail, Erdogan will retain power and will have carte blanche. Similar to Chavez when the people put him back in power.
Its likely a very dark future for Turkey in the form of a civil war or total collapse of secular power.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083
> He was seen surrounded by cheering supporters, saying in a live TV speech that the coup attempt was an "act of treason" and the army must be cleansed.
Starting with the cleansing of the Army, likely.
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This is similar to the US system, except that our Speaker of the House has less power than the Prime Minister, and our President has (a lot) more power than the monarch.
No, the army gives allegiance to the Constitution. I hope they stand for that against any branch of government.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oat...
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> We have attained an interesting stalemate where a corrupt/crazy monarch would struggle to assert power, yet a grossly malfunctioning government can still, in theory, be replaced by one if the people were to allow it. Could you elaborate, please?
The monarch can suspend parliament. The monarch can dismiss a prime minister (not happened for > 100 years). The monarch can appoint a new one. Every law has to be signed by the monarch (it's not been refused in 300 years). The monarch is commander in chief. Power resides where people believe it resides. The monarch can only do any of that if people believe in the monarch.
Actually, in Australia the Queen's representative (the Governor General) did dismiss the Prime Minister[1]. Interestingly, the Governor General position is closer to a ceremonial president in many other places in that they are appointed by the PM. If the PM at the time had acted to sack the Governor General that would have been just as legal as the other way around.
(Actually there are some good arguments that sacking the GG would have been "more" legal, in that the GG is supposed to act on the PM's advice. Fortunately the PM didn't push the issue, because that is the road to real trouble)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional...
ps: I'm turkish
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If you like democracy, you can't exactly be in favor of Erdogan either. Not to mention what will likely happen, if the coup fails. In the long term, this coup succeeding is probably the best option for democracy.
Indeed. There is a difference between democracy and liberal democracy.
If voters don't have the opportunity to get a truthful look at the society they live in and the people who would like to be elected, their votes are meaningless.
You need freedom of speech and a free press to get that perspective. A democracy without freedom of speech and a free press is no democracy at all but a facade hiding an authoritarian state.
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What should they have done (additionally)? E.g. take out/over all civil communication infrastructure, such as ISPs, cellular networks, phone landlines? Then enforce the curfew with actual deadly force (since they are not a police force with riot gear...)?
Here is a chart that describes the practical steps: https://embed.gyazo.com/4324b66e1a3045ad63349061a76f4756.png According to that illustration, the coup plotters missed the crucial step of breaching the president's residence and capturing him. They completely mistimed the coup when the president was on vacation outside the country. Now he has been able to rally support against the coup and his supporters are on the…
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It's also notable that there are many different militaries in the US: the 5 main national branches, the national guard units of the various states, as well as the state defense forces, that some states also maintain.
That's pretty nominal. Good luck to the governor trying to muster the national guard to confront federal troops.
The state governor initially used the Arkansas National Guard to block black students from attending Little Rock Central High. Eisenhower federalized the Guard and ordered them to protect the students and let them integrate, and also sent in the 101st Airborne.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_National_Guard_and_th...