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Oracle and the fall of Java EE

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Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#61

Post by [deleted] »

spriggan3 wrote: post #33
StevePerkins wrote: post #9

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

> Golang seems really promising, but has a long way to go. C# seems like the most credible challenger for business systems, but the .NET Core ecosystem is probably still years away from being where Java was in 2005. Go doesn't have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous "you don't need that with Go" is somethin…

[deleted]

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#62

Post by oldmanjay »

vetinari wrote: post #30
claystu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so hard about the JVM install? I googled for "java download" and this was my first hit: https://java.com/en/download/ Went there and found a single, totally obvious button labeled "Free Java Download" that detects your browser and Operating System and makes sure you download the proper version of the JVM. How much easier could it be?

Except for the above malware comments, what exactly does "Install Java" mean? You cannot redistribute the installer or the installed files. Except other things it means, you cannot make a docker image with java app and redistribute it. Everyone has to download their own java installer and build images themselves.

I have no recriminations prepared for you but I am curious; where did you get the idea you can't make docker images for java apps? Did you piece it together mistakenly based on incomplete knowledge or is someone actually spreading that around?

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#64

Post by iSnow »

BigJono wrote: post #48
jomamaxx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. It was designed to scale, it kind of forced a designed pattern (something called 'Enterprise Beans' - one bean for dealing with requests, stateful beans for dealing with sessions etc.) It got huge and bloated. Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks. Arguably - Node.js - the javascript container is the real extension of this: it's incred…

Does Java have an equivalent to the Promise system in Javascript? I find it much more usable than callbacks for async-heavy applications.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14541975/difference-betw...

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#65

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #21
elgabogringo wrote: post #14

Everybody hates Oracle, but people still give them so much money! One has to wonder when it will end now that there are alternatives.

Developers hate Oracle, but enterprises give them money.

I've worked with a lot of software that uses Oracle on the backend. Our company wasn't buying Oracle, but I'm sure the company we were paying for the software was giving Oracle a lot of money. However, I don't think this is the biggest reason that Oracle is the behemoth they are. I think it's the US government. I expect that everything in the federal government runs on an Oracle server. Just a guess, though. I just can't fathom how enterprise sales can float a company that everyone supposedly hates.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#66

Post by nix0n »

hyperpallium wrote: post #50
StevePerkins wrote: post #9

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

Enterprises dislike unnecessary change, so they wouldn't abandon java even if there was a technically more suitable alternative - they stuck with COBOL long after C was established. They will stick with java for a LONG time, not for a good time. Yet, java was (as someone recently disparagingly put it) "designed by adults". By people familiar with state of the art language research, what was needed and workable, compr…

Can Java EE be developed on OpenJDK?

Can OpenJDK create a fork of the whole Java ecosystem when Oracle wrecks it?

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#67

Post by TheCoelacanth »

woogy wrote: post #39
sigzero wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The JVM runs on just about everything. The .NET stack doesn't.

The latest .NET version is fully cross platform.

That's .NET Core, which is incompatible with .NET, so it's a completely new ecosystem so it has no where close to the maturity of Java or normal .NET.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#68

Post by specialist »

jomamaxx wrote: post #29
ufmace wrote: post #15

I do mostly C#, and don't know very much about the Java ecosystem, and I could barely understand anything in that article due to all of the Java jargon. Can anybody summarize what the point is for somebody who hasn't spent their career knee-deep in the Java ecosystem?

Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. It was designed to scale, it kind of forced a designed pattern (something called 'Enterprise Beans' - one bean for dealing with requests, stateful beans for dealing with sessions etc.) It got huge and bloated. Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks. Arguably - Node.js - the javascript container is the real extension of this: it's incred…

"Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. ... Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks."

"Container" is the key word here.

J2EE had the notion of an app server hosting your app.

The extreme alternative is to have your app be standalone and "embed" an I/O protocol (HTTP) server. I've had great success with this strategy.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#69

Post by bradleyjg »

StevePerkins wrote: post #9

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

I wonder how difficult it would be to port C# to the jvm. It really is a better language. There are some parts of the standard library that are better in java, but overall I'd say C# is better there too.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#70

Post by smrtinsert »

StevePerkins wrote: post #9

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

I'm exactly the same way - every language/platform I've explored has been frankly a waste of time sadly. In the meantime, Java instead has learned to scale down beautiful as well. Working in the node ecosystem lately has made me appreciate many times more, it's incredible how unproductive it is.

I still find it the gold standard of language/platform combos.

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