Everybody hates Oracle, but people still give them so much money! One has to wonder when it will end now that there are alternatives.
Developers hate Oracle, but enterprises give them money.
Oracle and the fall of Java EE
21–30 of 185 posts
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#22Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…
What are actual Java's shortcomings?
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#23Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…
I've worked on the Microsoft stack for most of my career, and I'm curious what Java has/does that the .NET stack doesn't. Or is that more about the .NET core stuff for running on Linux-based systems?
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#24Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…
I've worked on the Microsoft stack for most of my career, and I'm curious what Java has/does that the .NET stack doesn't. Or is that more about the .NET core stuff for running on Linux-based systems?
The JVM runs on just about everything. The .NET stack doesn't.
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#25Sure, technology changes. I this case it is positive, moving away from monolithic bags of tricks to lighter services. That is all good for Java. But, we will be looking to moving away because Oracle can no longer be trusted.
To monolithic, interdependent bag of lighter tricks. Microservices don't magically make developers know how to design.
There is nothing magic about microservices and people who think they are run the risk of getting burned bad. Even though each individual component is smaller and easier to reason about complexity still exists but its usually hidden in the interactions between the services. That said there are tremendous benefits of being able to develop/test/deploy incrementally, its all about balancing the trade-offs.
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#26Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…
I've had a mix of maintainable and rough apps on the rails side of things. I think with a good test suite, one can really build a solid app using Java these days. As you said there's a lot more modern approaches now as well. It's something I'd like to explore maybe a bit later this year, after I do some more messing around with Rust :)
Given it sounds like you use Java, what tools/stack do you use with it day to day?
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#27I do mostly C#, and don't know very much about the Java ecosystem, and I could barely understand anything in that article due to all of the Java jargon. Can anybody summarize what the point is for somebody who hasn't spent their career knee-deep in the Java ecosystem?
Java has several APIs. From what I can tell, profiles are pre-chosen sets of APIs. But the author is against these (waste of time), and wants devs to choose for themselves, and the server should be able to efficiently load them when needed. And microservices, just because.
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's so hard about the JVM install? I googled for "java download" and this was my first hit: https://java.com/en/download/ Went there and found a single, totally obvious button labeled "Free Java Download" that detects your browser and Operating System and makes sure you download the proper version of the JVM. How much easier could it be?
Dunno. Do you want the ask.com toolbar? How about updates that install the new version and remove the old version? Or maybe they've fixed the latter issue by now.
Well, the oracle website does tell you how to disable the toolbar, though I agree it shouldn't be there in the first place.
As for uninstalling the old version, are you saying you want the new version to automatically uninstall old versions?
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#29I do mostly C#, and don't know very much about the Java ecosystem, and I could barely understand anything in that article due to all of the Java jargon. Can anybody summarize what the point is for somebody who hasn't spent their career knee-deep in the Java ecosystem?
Java EE is basically the official java server-side container. It was designed to scale, it kind of forced a designed pattern (something called 'Enterprise Beans' - one bean for dealing with requests, stateful beans for dealing with sessions etc.)
It got huge and bloated.
Some people came along and created some lighter frameworks.
Arguably - Node.js - the javascript container is the real extension of this: it's incredibly light, can handle zillions of connections, you install the packages you need, it's totally open source. And it's in javascript which is uniquely well positioned to do a lot of 'asynchronous' stuff. Passing functions around with callbacks is possibly in Java but it's just bulky. Mostly due to the nature of typing. It's even kind of bulky in Apple Swift, for example.
Java is a great language, that has made some improvements with lambdas etc.
Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
And now imagine where Java could be if the ecosystem wasn't completely fucked up by oracle. Imagine a Java with a sane, user friendly installer, an open source community supported by a big corporation, actual development, no completely insane lawsuits. Instead, developers want to abandon the JVM platform. They actively seek new platforms and create them. The damage is done.
What's so hard about the JVM install? I googled for "java download" and this was my first hit: https://java.com/en/download/ Went there and found a single, totally obvious button labeled "Free Java Download" that detects your browser and Operating System and makes sure you download the proper version of the JVM. How much easier could it be?
Except for the above malware comments, what exactly does "Install Java" mean?
You cannot redistribute the installer or the installed files. Except other things it means, you cannot make a docker image with java app and redistribute it. Everyone has to download their own java installer and build images themselves.