Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier • Hacker News Board

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#81

Post by WWKong » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

ashark wrote: post #71

WWKong wrote: post #62

I'm curious to see how they surveyed for "happiness". As a parent the initial years are rough just providing care. In the thick of it if someone comes and asks, "are you happy?", the answer is irrelevant (I understand that the question won't be as direct, but the outcome will be similar). IMHO the best question is, "if you could go back in time would you still decide to have children?".

> IMHO the best question is, "if you could go back in time would you still decide to have children?". No way you'd get a straight answer to that since it's way, way too close to "do you wish your kids were dead?" It'd probably be tough to come up with any question that probes that sentiment that wouldn't be strongly affected by that problem. My answer would be "go back in time and decide to have these children? 100%…

Yes. It should be more inline with , "Go back in time but no guarantee that the kids will be the same". Though it will be better than, "are you happy?", it might still not provide a good result because many would have convinced themselves that they need to have kids because "that is how it works".

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#82

Post by louprado » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:39 PM UTC

"While it's honestly the best thing, having kids, if you take away one thing from this lecture, remember this: There are a lot of things that are easier to do before you have kids than after, many of which will make you a better parent when you do have kids." PG, [1]

Even a disaggregation of the OP data is unlikely to assist in the decision of wether or not to have children. Instead, hearing a personal experience from someone with whom you are reasonably familiar is more relevant. This also assumes you know yourself fully so you can perform a comparative analysis.

That said, I find the above PG quote personally useful. I decided to delay children until I am over 40 (PG was 46 when he had his first child), able to make my own schedule, have financial security so one parent has the option to stay home, and made a solid attempt of most of my major goals.

Those requirements do create a risk of becoming too old for children. But for those of us who have time, why not take sincere advice from someone well known that made it work.

And if you never have children, just forget the PG quote and take comfort in the OP conclusion instead.

[1] http://startupclass.samaltman.com/courses/lec03/ Edits: grammar, clarity

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#83

Post by buckbova » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #77

buckbova wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a reason to have children that is not selfish unless your doing it to please your SO solely? Of course there's adoption.

you forgot the big one -- to please the would-be grandparents.

Ha! Having children to get your mother(-in-law) off your back? At which point these grandparents now criticize the way you raise your kids at the same time spoiling them. Worth it? Maybe because, let me guess, the grandparents are willing to babysit or provide daycare so you can work.

The reason I'd have kids is for that connection only a father can have to his child and the joy a large extended family can bring as my children eventually have children and so on which is completely selfish. But I'd say there's nothing wrong with it in my eyes.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#84

Post by jstewartmobile » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #47

jstewartmobile wrote: post #22

They could have just posted the bar chart and called it a day. Why is it that when there is so little money out there for real research, there always seems to be plenty floating around for BS like this?

Maybe because the article has more to say about the issue than just the bar chart? Is this your first time reading a news publication or something?

Aside from the cost of raising a child, the bulk of the data in that article was in the chart. Everything else was idle speculation over an arbitrary measurement of "happiness".

If they just kept giving Minsky the money like they should have, we could have strong AIs Terminatoring us right now, and we could just get it all over with.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#85

Post by greyman » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #64

greyman wrote: post #29

As a father, I still cant believe how someone might be happier without children, or kids have not made him happier... it is a most fulfilling thing to have a relationship with ones own kid. I also do not personally know anyone who said kids didnt make him happier. I am from Europe, not USA, but it is unlikely people are that different there.

It may make you happier, but at what cost? Having children is a monumentally massive physical, emotional, financial, and psychological investment. What if there's a problem in the womb and they're born with a physical defect? What if there's a problem at birth and my spouse is now physically scarred for life? What if I get divorced and my wife now legally fucks me out of everything I own, and grooms the children to d…

Ok. But I still believe it is worth it. Anything bad can happen to ones life even without having kids. Despite the risks it is worth it. But of course, it requires to have a good partner who supports family values.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#86

Post by brightball » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

softawre wrote: post #10

rday wrote: post #9

I'd really like to see a study specific to female happiness with children. I live in the US, and I think men and women's experience with children is entirely different. When my wife worked, she missed our kids tremendously. Almost 75% of her take home went to day care. She was pretty miserable. Now she stays home. She gets a lot of off-hand comments from other friends with kids about "how bored they would be if they…

Wow, I have a very similar experience to yours. My wife worked, same thing, now doesn't work, and she feels lonely and like she (1) isn't contributing and (2) has no adult conversation. I try to help her by mentioning how great she is with the kid, and by taking the kid places by myself so she can go see and do adult things. It is tough, good luck.

A huge part of that is the lack of OTHER stay at home moms that would previously create an entire social group for each other. It's socially awkward to mix in a stay at home dad into that type of group for a number of reasons.

Add in moving away from home and family to the mix as contributors for the lack of adult conversation too.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#87

Post by ams6110 » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:42 PM UTC

inanutshellus wrote: post #69

sosuke wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No data to back up my feeling that most of the pressure stay at home women get is from other women. My wife stays at home and we buck any negative comment together to keep those feelings at bay. We show we are proud of it, not ashamed by it and we aren't willing to let anyone else belittle our choices. Any negative comment, any off-hand comment needs to be squashed immediately. Same thing happens with self-esteem iss…

It seems there's no "bright" side. There are some stay-at-home moms in my wife's family and they were... defensive... when my wife went back to work. So either way, you find a way to be resentful or ashamed. Go back to work and miss your child's first steps/words/laughs. Go back to work and someone else raises your children. Someone else uses your child to teach their child how to be a leader. Someone else (accidenta…

tread water financially compared to your dual-income friends

Screw that. Don't judge your life by how others live.

My newest car is 12 years old. I have a wife, kids, and a good job and could easily have new cars every few years but instead I have no debt other than mortgage and I put the money into my retirement and college savings. I don't begrudge the choices of my friends who like to buy a lot of new things but I also don't feel any obligation to live the way they do.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#88

Post by Xero » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:42 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #64

greyman wrote: post #29

As a father, I still cant believe how someone might be happier without children, or kids have not made him happier... it is a most fulfilling thing to have a relationship with ones own kid. I also do not personally know anyone who said kids didnt make him happier. I am from Europe, not USA, but it is unlikely people are that different there.

It may make you happier, but at what cost? Having children is a monumentally massive physical, emotional, financial, and psychological investment. What if there's a problem in the womb and they're born with a physical defect? What if there's a problem at birth and my spouse is now physically scarred for life? What if I get divorced and my wife now legally fucks me out of everything I own, and grooms the children to d…

This is the argument I used with the 2 doctors that refused to perform a vasectomy on me when I was age 25.

The hereditary history of physical and mental illnesses that run in my family, the economic/environmental projection for the rest of this century as well as the hypotheticals that you listed tip the scales in entirety towards the costs rather than the benefits.

None of the nebulous, ineffable personal fulfillments that parents speak of have ever sounded like a basis for a good moral argument for forcing a new life into this world.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#89

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:46 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #64

greyman wrote: post #29

As a father, I still cant believe how someone might be happier without children, or kids have not made him happier... it is a most fulfilling thing to have a relationship with ones own kid. I also do not personally know anyone who said kids didnt make him happier. I am from Europe, not USA, but it is unlikely people are that different there.

It may make you happier, but at what cost? Having children is a monumentally massive physical, emotional, financial, and psychological investment. What if there's a problem in the womb and they're born with a physical defect? What if there's a problem at birth and my spouse is now physically scarred for life? What if I get divorced and my wife now legally fucks me out of everything I own, and grooms the children to d…

That's called 'FUD' and it drives lots of decisions. What if ... all of those are small possibilities even added up?

Instead let me ask, What if you, as a thoughtful and responsible person do not raise another thoughtful and responsible individual? And instead leave it to the thoughtless and irresponsible. We have to live with that too.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#90

Post by yarrel » Thu, Jul 07, 2016, 5:48 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #68

greyman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, having kids is the most fulfilling thing happening in my life. Honestly, that advice is terrible.

When people say kids are the most fulfilling thing in their life, is it because they are didn't have anything really fulfilling in their life before that? I get fulfillment for my job some of the time - though its not the be all and end all in my life and it pissed me off sometimes too. I get a lot more from whitewater kayaking and mountain biking and generally being outdoors in my spare time. Some of my friends have…

> When people say kids are the most fulfilling thing in their life, is it because they are didn't have anything really fulfilling in their life before that?

No.

> Did you have something that gave you a lot of fulfillment before you had kids?

Many things, and I still do.

But it's certainly a trade off, trying to live out media images of motherhood/fatherhood need to be avoided, and kids don't have to be the most fulfilling thing in anyone's life.