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Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#41

Post by phkahler »

a2tech wrote: post #24

My friends with children after they've had a few drinks have all told my wife and I to not have children. I know this is a small selection of college educated people with comfortable lifestyles, but when every single person I know discloses to me when they're in a truthful state that we're better off not having kids..it makes you think.

>> My friends with children after they've had a few drinks have all told my wife and I to not have children.

Because getting out to have drinks with friends becomes so rare. In that moment, you are fulfilling one of their social needs that has been so neglected it seems like the only thing that matters. What they're really saying is that by not having children you'll be able to continue as you are right then. Take it as a thank you from them for having that drink.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#42

Post by wmt »

eevilspock wrote: post #7

The article seems to cite public policy as the source of the difference. I don't think public policies are the root cause, but rather the underlying values of the culture that gave rise to them (as the article later seems to suggest). I'll bet that the U.S. end of that chart tends to be characterized by cultures that put individualism above all else, while the other end much less so. Individualism is good; I'd never…

The Nordics, where having kids also increases your happiness, are also very high on individualism as opposed to collectivism. The key difference to the US are the public policies that allow families never to stress about things like arranging daycare to the kids from the day they born.

These policies are not there to combat individualism, but to enable it with taxpaid support networks. Most of them are not poor aids, but state benefits that everyone enjoys, like the free or cheap high quality daycare used by the poor and rich alike.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#43

Post by spaceisballer »

I think a big part of it is that a lot of people think that having kids is expected of them. I applaud the people who know what they want and follow through no matter what expectations are put on them. Be it with not getting married or not having kids (or vice versa). I wanted kids and so did my wife, our views were the same and we ended up having two kids. It has brought immense happiness to me (and sleep deprivation). I wish I could see them more but I value the time I have with them when I'm home from work. I would never tell anyone they have to have kids or get married. I can share my experiences but how the hell am I supposed to know what makes you happy, you need to find that out and stick to it.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#44

Post by jseliger »

rday wrote: post #9

I'd really like to see a study specific to female happiness with children. I live in the US, and I think men and women's experience with children is entirely different. When my wife worked, she missed our kids tremendously. Almost 75% of her take home went to day care. She was pretty miserable. Now she stays home. She gets a lot of off-hand comments from other friends with kids about "how bored they would be if they…

I'd really like to see a study specific to female happiness with children

All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood discusses this (https://www.amazon.com/All-Joy-No-Fun-Parenthood/dp/00620722...), among many other interesting topics.

I'd also observe that there are probably time-sensitive issues; much of the day-to-day stuff with small children is dreary, but the long-term prospects are quite good. I've heard lots of older people say that having adult children is great, because they're self-sustaining and yet emotionally close / connected.

Many long-term projects (probably including startups) have somewhat crappy day-to-day moments but high long-term satisfaction. And many short-term satisfactions (like eating ice cream) may have negative long-term consequences.

Bryan Caplan's book Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids: Why Being a Great Parent is Less Work and More Fun Than You Think is also good on these topics, and he points out that much of the supposed happiness research is overblown or misused.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#46

Post by DominikR »

balls187 wrote: post #17
rday wrote: post #9

I'd really like to see a study specific to female happiness with children. I live in the US, and I think men and women's experience with children is entirely different. When my wife worked, she missed our kids tremendously. Almost 75% of her take home went to day care. She was pretty miserable. Now she stays home. She gets a lot of off-hand comments from other friends with kids about "how bored they would be if they…

Societal Pressure on Women is immense. Societal Pressure on Women in the work place is immense. Societal Pressure on Mothers is also immense. They combine to make it exceptionally tough on Women. But mad props to those who have persevered despite that pressure--like my Mom and many other mothers out there. > IME, the dads I know who stay home get more of an "awesome bro!" If you are independently wealthy, sure. Other…

> If you are independently wealthy, sure. Otherwise, IME, you are considered a failure for not being able to provide for your family.

Even then I'd say that many men would face thinly veiled criticism or even ridicule behind their backs.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#47

Post by Dirlewanger »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #22

They could have just posted the bar chart and called it a day. Why is it that when there is so little money out there for real research, there always seems to be plenty floating around for BS like this?

Maybe because the article has more to say about the issue than just the bar chart?

Is this your first time reading a news publication or something?

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#49

Post by jseliger »

a2tech wrote: post #24

My friends with children after they've had a few drinks have all told my wife and I to not have children. I know this is a small selection of college educated people with comfortable lifestyles, but when every single person I know discloses to me when they're in a truthful state that we're better off not having kids..it makes you think.

My friends with children after they've had a few drinks have all told my wife and I to not have children.

Part of the question is, "Over what time horizon?" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12050597). Many people with very young kids say it's the pits, but ones with older ones seem to do much better. And many people over age 45 or so who don't have kids seem to wish that they'd had kids.

I'm guessing that there's also a strong "grass is greener" element. In discussions about what to do in high school or college, half the responses always say "Study harder!" and half say "Party more!", with both sides seemingly recommending the thing they didn't do.

Re: Research suggests many US parents will lie when saying kids made them happier

#50

Post by JackFr »

SCAQTony wrote: post #13
theseatoms wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an aside to this, there's a lot that society and governance can do to make life easier for parents both in the short and long term. And further subsidize child-bearing? Property taxes already directly fund public schools in most localities in the US.

If we further subsidized child-bearing we would have fewer abortions which for my personal socio-economic beliefs (YMMV) would be a great thing but would the right wing allow that? NO! — Ironic, huh?

Among those who really see abortion as a compelling issue many are pretty far left on immigration, national defense, capital punishment and social welfare programs. They find themselves stuck in a right wing they're not terribly comfortable in because they were drummed out of the Democratic Party, through its doctrinaire insistence on the abortion license.
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