Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

tofugu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 210 posts

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#191

Post by iwontreddit »

wbl wrote: post #44
ekianjo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more you learn about the real nature of ww2, you realize that there was no good side in that war. Just two evils fighting each other. You don't win wars without killing people, and therefore all sides are evil by definition. The little process of judging "war criminals" after the war is over is just for one's good conscience. If the Allies had lost they would have been judged as war criminals by the victors too…

Where is the American Treblinka, the British Buchenwald? WWII was against genocidal maniacs who starved entire countries and destroyed Yiddish speaking culture.

> Where is the American Treblinka

Where is the axis hiroshima/nagasaki? Where is the axis firebombings of japan and germany?

> the British Buchenwald?

Go look up bengali holocaust where millions of indians were starved to death by the british. It's also funny that you would bring up death camps ( which were invented and pioneered by the british ). The germans modeled their death camps after the british death camps of south africa...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/LizzieVa...

Looks like a holocaust picture right? Wrong. It was from a british concentration camp in south africa during the 2nd boer war.

> WWII was against genocidal maniacs who starved entire countries and destroyed Yiddish speaking culture.

WW2 was about one group of genocidal maniacs fighting against another group of genocidal maniacs for resources/power/wealth.

I don't think the allies ( US, Britain, Soviet Union ), the KINGS of genocide are any better than germany or japan when it came to genocide. As bad as the destruction of yiddish culture may have been, it pales in comparison to what happened to the natives, aborigines, inuit, pacific islanders, africans, siberians, circassians, etc.

As I said, in ww2, it was evil vs evil. Evil won and evil lost. If both sides had somehow lost, then you could argue that the good won.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#192

Post by Inconel »

iwontreddit wrote: post #190
Inconel wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The allies raped far more women than the axis. I'd be very appreciative if you could link to a source for this claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_... Millions of german women were raped by the allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_... Tens of thousands of japanese women were raped after ww2. The only reason that more japanese women weren't raped was because the japanese government provided "comfort women" for the allied troops.

Thanks for the links.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#193

Post by amazing_jose »

iwontreddit wrote: post #170
amazing_jose wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you will find a few comments in this Quora thread can explain the "take no prisoners" policy. Basically the Japanese were using perfidy as a normal war tactic (perfidy is a war crime, surrender and then, when your enemy's guard is lower, attack). To me there's not greatest lack of honour than committing perfidy in war. [1] https://www.quora.com/Is-false-surrendering-a-war-crime

> Basically the Japanese were using perfidy as a normal war tactic (perfidy is a war crime, surrender and then, when your enemy's guard is lower, attack). The japanese started suicide runs because the allies had a no prisoner policy. "American soldiers in the Pacific often deliberately killed Japanese soldiers who had surrendered." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World... Not only that the alli…

I think that you will find evidence in both directions. It was a feedback loop. The Americans soldiers had a racist preconception of the Japanese, and at the same time were exposed to the the atrocities that the Japanese committed in China, way before fighting the Americans. You cannot ignore the indoctrination of the Japanese (and please, don't make me here recount some of their massacres in China). Many Americans considered them killing machines without heart with whom it was impossible to reason.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#194

Post by iwontreddit »

akeruu wrote: post #62
Apocryphon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was responsible for the mass suicides in the Battle of Okinawa?

This has been subjected to revisionism multiple times. After public protest and court ruling, it is now admitted it was the Japanese army which ordered people to kill themselves and even killed them: "Orders from Japanese soldiers led to Okinawans committing group suicide," and, "The [Japanese] army caused many tragedies in Okinawa, killing local civilians and forcing them to commit mass suicide." [1] https://en.wiki…

> After public protest and court ruling, it is now admitted it was the Japanese army which ordered people to kill themselves and even killed them:

That's a bit of revisionism as well. The reason why many okinawans killed themselves was because the allied soldiers were raping and killing okinawan civilians.

From your own wikipedia link...

"There was some return fire from a few of the houses, but the others were probably occupied by civilians – and we didn't care. It was a terrible thing not to distinguish between the enemy and women and children. Americans always had great compassion, especially for children. Now we fired indiscriminately."

The nonsense about "distinguish between the enemy an women and children" is just egotistic nonsense. We have a long history of butchering women and children ( especially non-white women and children ). All we have to do is review US treatment of natives, blacks, etc throughout US history to see how compassionate we were.

The reason why the okinawans killed themselves was because of the brutality and savagery of both sides ( americans and japanese ).

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#195

Post by wallace_f »

hoodoof wrote: post #4

Related but at a tangent - after a lifetime of interest in karate I came to realise that most of the stuff taught at karate is not practical. Katas and karate punches and kicks - most of this better thought of more as dancing or ceremonial. A bit like Tai Chi - except that Tai Chi claims no real world martial value. The myth remains however of karate being great self defence training. Our local karate club is packed…

Yea, a lot of it is more comparable to doing dancing, gymnastics or exercise for fun, but I wouldn't call it 100% pointless.

There's good evidence that there is usefulness in karate for self defense. Lyoto Machida is an MMA fighter who at one point was #1 in the world in his weight class, and he uses a lot from karate (he has a lot of karate heritage as well as training). He won a fight a fight via crane kick, which is a technique from vs a former #1 LHW and HW fighter, I found it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVSGQ_FRs3k

For self defense it's also probably useful to do routine exercise, stretches, etc., so in that sense it's also probably helpful.

Boxing, wrestling, and submission-style training such as jiu jitsu are the most effective hand to hand combat techniques, but even then it's still not entirely practical. Humans are evolved to fight with weapons, so it's all kind of pointless anyways. I once saw a little girl quickly dispatch a scary-looking guy with pepper spray.

I don't do any martial arts stuff, but I those going to the MMA gym that talk shit to those that do karate is just the pot calling the kettle black, aside from being immature.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#196

Post by nickik »

iwontreddit wrote: post #171
nickik wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, those famous Rape bombs.

I guess you haven't heard of the mass rape of german and japanese women by the victorious allies. The allies raped far more women than the axis.

The allies had far less incidents of rape. And defently not systematic like Japan. If you really beliefe that its clear that you have never actually studied the issue.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#197

Post by RockyMcNuts »

iwontreddit wrote: post #189
RockyMcNuts wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source for the 'myth' of the Bataan Death March? Even the Japanese have apologized for it....and for other extreme militarist stuff. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39145098/ns/world_news-asiapacific... There are people who say the German concentration camps were 'myths' too. There are memes that propagate because they serve someone's agenda... maybe the same applies to the narrative that the "allied soldiers […

> What's your source for the 'myth' of the Bataan Death March? "100–650 American prisoners of war died on the march before they reached their destination." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March I'm not saying the march didn't happen. I'm just saying that the propaganda surrounding the bataan "death" march is a myth. Growing up, you'd think it was worst thing in the world. But then you learn that hardly any…

Okay, 'myth' = 'only 10% of the people died.'

Revisionism FTW.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#198

Post by cyberferret »

meerita wrote: post #144
cyberferret wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just starting Kendo training here at a local dojo. Our instructor is very adamant and clear at almost all training sessions that the skills we are learning with the bamboo and wooden swords are NOT usable in a self defence or martial capacity at all. Rather that our studies are for mental focus, fitness and spiritual calmness. These are the exact reasons I took up the study of this art. In my younger days, I studie…

form kendoka here: I don't want to distrust your instructor, but Kendo IS the way to study all you need to fight. Then there is each school where you can practice special katas and become proficient with one or another technique, but overall.

There is no doubting that in just my 3 months of study so far that my balance, focus, strength and endurance have improved significantly. All of these factors in themselves will probably make me better prepared to stand up to an attacker in a dark alley than I was before I started the study.

However, the finer techniques of grip and striking style - while beneficial for honing and improving all of the above, have little relevance in a street fight situation.

But even if my Kendo study gives me the balance and a millisecond better reaction time to be able to pivot out of harms way and dodge a blow, and if it gives me the endurance to run the heck away from a danger scenario, then it is all worthwhile.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#199

Post by barry-cotter »

bbotond wrote: post #107
barry-cotter wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure! Japanese people are human and the base morality that evolution has endowed us with. This divides humanity into two groups, in group and out group. Morality only applies to the in group. It takes a lot of acculturation and education to expand an individual's conception of the in group is, from family/tribe to nation/culture to humanity. As such, any sub-culture that can take over the public sphere of a culture w…

Thanks for the explanation. The book looks quite interesting. But that still doesn't explain why the armies of Western nations seemingly committed less and less serious atrocities. Or is that just an illusion because "history is written by the victors"?

It's not an illusion. But the IJA's conduct during the Russo-Japanese war or during WW1 was as good as any Western military's, in accordance with the relevant Geneva Convention's.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#200

Post by mirimir »

blahi wrote: post #78
mirimir wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aikido is far better in that regard. Edit: I mean that it's more usable in real life.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Sorry I'm not pointing to "evidence" but what you are saying is like laser tag guns are far better than AK-47.

The context here is self defense. Not fighting in bars, gang melees, or whatever. Part of that is avoiding fights by defusing confrontations. Another aspect is defense with controlled escalation. First, you get out of the way. If that's insufficient, you trip them. If that's insufficient, you take them down. If that's insufficient, you incapacitate them.

There are many schools of Aikido. I studied in an American dojo that incorporated street-fighting skills. Also substantial work with staff and wooden sword.

Post reply on HN