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Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

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Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#81

Post by calibraxis »

wbl wrote: post #44
ekianjo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more you learn about the real nature of ww2, you realize that there was no good side in that war. Just two evils fighting each other. You don't win wars without killing people, and therefore all sides are evil by definition. The little process of judging "war criminals" after the war is over is just for one's good conscience. If the Allies had lost they would have been judged as war criminals by the victors too…

Where is the American Treblinka, the British Buchenwald? WWII was against genocidal maniacs who starved entire countries and destroyed Yiddish speaking culture.

"Hitler's concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in South Africa and for the Indians in the wild west; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination—by starvation and uneven combat—of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity." (http://www.jewishjournal.com/sacredintentions/item/hitlers_i...)

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#82

Post by toyg »

euske wrote: post #45

Fun (though unverifiable) fact: No one reads Inazo Nitobe, or that "Hagakure" thing in today's Japan. It looks like these are mostly for Westerner's consumption. "Bushido" today is often taken as some weird/quaint moral code that is often depicted comically. It could be interesting for a historical viewpoint, but I don't think these historic texts are very useful to explain the modern-day Japan. It's a bit like readi…

But the point is that they were widely read at some point, so they shaped the culture in ways that are now ingrained.

It's like Homer's epics: nowadays they are mostly restricted to students of literature or historians, but their influence on Western culture throughout history is massive.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#83

Post by ComodoHacker »

SonOfLilit wrote: post #63
germinalphrase wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you would recommend as a more practical form of self defense training for those not working in a high-risk environment?

Ninjutsu is the hackers' martial art - it's full of clever exploits of the body based on a very good understanding of the physics involved. It emphasizes practicing real fighting situations.

Is there any schools today teaching real Ninjutsu?

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#84

Post by nisa »

germinalphrase wrote: post #34
Kostchei wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done some form of boxing, grappling /judo or martial art for 30 years. I taught physical skills- use of force, to law enforcement for 6 years. For 5 years I worked in a violent custodial environment. Some young people entering that work-place had never faced an angry man, never been in a real fight. For them that "martial arts" environment is a reasonably safe and accessible place to start. I agree that it is no…

What you would recommend as a more practical form of self defense training for those not working in a high-risk environment?

Not sure if it's popular elsewhere but Ju-Jutsu training has been pretty intensive and helpful - not sure if it helps in a real fight through, but I guess with a few years of regular training you are better off - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ju-jutsu

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#85

Post by jonyt »

cyberferret wrote: post #49
wbl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the American Treblinka, the British Buchenwald? WWII was against genocidal maniacs who starved entire countries and destroyed Yiddish speaking culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World...

So you're saying Allied war crimes were in no way comparable to Axis?

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#86

Post by gadders »

Other modern inventions that people think are ancient:

1) Scots wearing different patterned kilts to denote clans. This was mostly invented by Sir Walter Scott

2) Druid rituals. Druids were wiped out by the Romans, and the only accounts left of their rituals are Roman. What we now think of Druid rituals are a mixture of Roman writings and stuff made up in the 19th century.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#88

Post by frankzinger »

hoodoof wrote: post #4

Related but at a tangent - after a lifetime of interest in karate I came to realise that most of the stuff taught at karate is not practical. Katas and karate punches and kicks - most of this better thought of more as dancing or ceremonial. A bit like Tai Chi - except that Tai Chi claims no real world martial value. The myth remains however of karate being great self defence training. Our local karate club is packed…

Possible counter-examples to this are Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson [0] and Lyoto Machida [1]. There are probably more, but these are examples of two very successful MMA fighters whose backgrounds are based on Karate and whose MMA fighting styles are apparently very Karate-like so it can't be completely useless.

(Disclaimer: I am a complete layman.)

Also, for those advocating Aikido: how many Aikido guys excel in MMA? (Only a slightly rhetorical question--I could very well be wrong.)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Thompson_(fighter)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#89

Post by barry-cotter »

bbotond wrote: post #64
jbooth wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about Japanese conduct during the war, I'd find the rampant war crimes a lot more notable than the fighting until death.

Can someone knowledgeable about Japanese culture explain why those war crimes were so common?

Sure!

Japanese people are human and the base morality that evolution has endowed us with. This divides humanity into two groups, in group and out group. Morality only applies to the in group. It takes a lot of acculturation and education to expand an individual's conception of the in group is, from family/tribe to nation/culture to humanity. As such, any sub-culture that can take over the public sphere of a culture will have little difficulty getting people to dehumanise the other, and once they're dehumanised people have little more difficulty committing atrocities than they do slaughtering animals.

As you may have noted none of this is specific to Japanese culture. That's because in this respect we're a lot weirder than they are in historical perspective.

If you want a good overview of man's violence towards man and it's decline I recommend Better Angels of Our Nature, Stephen Pinker.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#90

Post by e12e »

germinalphrase wrote: post #34
Kostchei wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done some form of boxing, grappling /judo or martial art for 30 years. I taught physical skills- use of force, to law enforcement for 6 years. For 5 years I worked in a violent custodial environment. Some young people entering that work-place had never faced an angry man, never been in a real fight. For them that "martial arts" environment is a reasonably safe and accessible place to start. I agree that it is no…

What you would recommend as a more practical form of self defense training for those not working in a high-risk environment?

If you want self-defence, my impression is that world-wide Krav Maga is generally a form that manages to hold a high standard across different locations and instructors. But as always, practice will never be any better than the instructor and the students he or she accepts.

In general, any martial school that focuses not on competition, can be good (the set of techniques are not really that different, they're all ways for one human to break another human - physics and biology dictates what falls out as efficient).

Judo can be efficient self-defence in a club that tries to focus on the early martial arts curriculum (but generally fails miserably at teaching strikes and kicks). One benefit of judo is that it (should) teach good ukemi (how to fall) - I usually say that knowing ukemi is knowing how to block the ground. A large number of real-world injuries come from hitting your head on the ground or on the curb, so being able to get up (and run away) from being thrown to the ground is a good start. Not to mention some grappling can go a long way if you find yourself in an intimate situation that you only too late realize is turning into an attack. This also holds for brazilian ju-jutsu (which despite it's name is more like early judo practice, than traditional ju-jutsu) -- but I've yet to see many bjj dojos that have a reasonable focus on throws and efficient ukemi (which makes sense, if you focus on a sport that does mostly take-downs and not throws).

That said, most big martial arts can be great for self-defence, if the instructors have an interest and are competent in self-defence. But practising real-life self-defence isn't really pleasant - so doesn't go well with typical "martial arts for exercise" type programs.

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