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Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

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Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#181
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure! Japanese people are human and the base morality that evolution has endowed us with. This divides humanity into two groups, in group and out group. Morality only applies to the in group. It takes a lot of acculturation and education to expand an individual's conception of the in group is, from family/tribe to nation/culture to humanity. As such, any sub-culture that can take over the public sphere of a culture w…

Thats a very simplistic and in the end not really satisfactory explanation. After all not every conflict ends in genocide and Ausschwitz. And as evil as it is when women are raped by soldiers in war, normally they are not tortured to death and their genitals mutilated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

Russians also mutilated many German/eastern euro women as well during the during the final months of WW2. The best analysis I've read explained that it was due to a multitude of factors:

a) Not only allowed by authority figures (Soviet officers) but also heavily promoted by propoganda coming out of Russia via pamphlets saying to show no mercy

b) Done by soldiers who faught for months/years in some of the bloodiest and most zero-sum fighting in the entire war, as the soviets fought their way to Berlin against Germans who were given an obvious suicide mission - to buy as much time as possible for Htiler futile end-game strategies. The Russians also passed many Ukranian/Belorussian towns that were ravaged by Germans.

c) There was basically total anarchy that existed in that area between Russia and Germany. It existed well before the Russians arrived. This stateless anarchy was largely how the Nazis were able to conduct their genocide so effectively and without worrying about punishment.

So this is the same enviornment that the Russians commited their horrible mass rape of German citizens.

China was similarily going through their own anarchistic transition with the battle between communisits (Mao) and nationalists (Chiang Kai-shek) taking place in the power-vacuum. So the pesants who were caught in between existed in a similar brutal enviornment as in eastern europe/Germany and a similar war-ravaged army with a superiority complex operating in an anarchistic state.

Although whether Russia/Japan military were special in their brutality, even in a greater historical context, it's hard to say. There were definately some differences between the Japanese empire/early Soviet Union compared to the west that stand out even today, in terms of harshness of the military towards their opponents/civilians - which may make it stand out.

While many people will say "but the Nazi's were evil too"... the abuse of civilians by Germans was largely kept hidden from their military. The secret police would only come in after the military left an area and it was kept as much a secret from them as possible.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you are talking about racist hatred trumping rationality and civility. There weren't a more racist and savage group in ww2 than the allied soldier in the pacific. Hundreds of thousands of japanese soldiers were tortured, mutilated/decapitated and turned into war trophies. It's a good thing we won ww2, otherwise, so many people would have been executed for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

" There weren't a more racist and savage group in ww2 than the allied soldier in the pacific. " Not even the German government, engaged in attempting to exterminate the undesirable population of Europe? Or the German treatment of Soviet prisoners? Or Soviets of German prisoners? Certainly, there was a lot of hatred and racism on the Allied side. (And then there the allegation of Patton's famous disinclination to acce…

> Not even the German government, engaged in attempting to exterminate the undesirable population of Europe?

They weren't more racist than the US/British. You could argue they were as racist since they modeled their racial ideology from the US/Britain.

> Or the German treatment of Soviet prisoners?

The german treatment of soviets and the soviet treatment of the germans were horrific. But nowhere close to the level of depravity that the allies in the pacific sunk to. The allies didn't just kill japanese POWs. The allies tortured and mutilated and decapitated hundreds of thousands of japanese soldiers. There are countless japanese skulls and all kinds of mutilated japanese body parts in the US because the GIs did so much mutilating in the pacific. No fighting force in ww2 engaged in such disgusting behavior.

> Do you have a source for the hundreds of thousands of Japanese soldiers being tortured, mutilated, decapitated, and turned into war trophies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanes...

It was so prevalent that LIFE magazine ran a cover story on it...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/LIFE_May_1944...

It was so prevalent that FDR, the leader of the free world, was fiddling with the bones of a tortured japanese soldier in the oval office.

"On June 13, 1944, the press reported that President Roosevelt had been presented with a letter-opener made out of a Japanese soldier's arm bone by Francis E. Walter, a Democratic congressman.[4] Supposedly, the president commented, "This is the sort of gift I like to get", and "There'll be plenty more such gifts"

"In 1984, Japanese soldiers' remains were repatriated from the Mariana Islands. Roughly 60 percent were missing their skulls"

More than 70,000 japanese were killed in marina. If 60% were missing their skulls, that means more than 42,000 skulls sent to the US. That's just one island campaign...

You don't learn about this in school. As I said, evil won ww2 and evil lost ww2. There was no good guy in ww2.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#183
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, those famous Rape bombs.

I guess you haven't heard of the mass rape of german and japanese women by the victorious allies. The allies raped far more women than the axis.

The allies raped far more women than the axis.

I'd be very appreciative if you could link to a source for this claim.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just starting Kendo training here at a local dojo. Our instructor is very adamant and clear at almost all training sessions that the skills we are learning with the bamboo and wooden swords are NOT usable in a self defence or martial capacity at all. Rather that our studies are for mental focus, fitness and spiritual calmness. These are the exact reasons I took up the study of this art. In my younger days, I studie…

form kendoka here: I don't want to distrust your instructor, but Kendo IS the way to study all you need to fight. Then there is each school where you can practice special katas and become proficient with one or another technique, but overall.

I study kenjutsu (and aikido) - and have friends/colleagues who are also serious kendo practitioners.

Kendo has pluses and minuses - the shinai used can teach habits of "flicking wrists" which just don't work with heavier weapons. And yet advanced practitioners have serious focus and skills.

I much admire a female Japanese friend (and sempai) who was told by our sensei to go and study kendo (while not slacking off in her other studies). In her fifties, and a 5th dan, off she went and started from scratch but made rapid progress, and brought back what she had learned. Our sensei told other people to do different things - horses for courses.

But what does it mean "to fight"? No rules? For your life? For someone else's life? These are the fundamental questions to be examined and resolved. How would you know if you are ready?

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#185
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many other things worth doing, iaido is best experienced by doing it. Talking about it will get you nowhere. Get your sword out and start training until you wear yourself out. The people in your club who are there because katanas are cool will all quit within the next 3 years. Some may last 5. None will last 60 unless they get over the coolness factor and see it for what it is. That being said, iaido is great. I…

Japanese university clubs are pretty intense, 3 sessions per week for first grader, up to 5 for the more advanced member. But given how much 1 and 2nd year and how few 3rd year and upper there is, you seems totally right on your point. Actually I was wondering why there was so few of them, but I guess the cultural background also plays a lot; 4th year mostly focus on searching a job and not a lot of student do a mast…

It is common for members of a university club to be practicing effectively 2 or more hours per day. Over several years this brings pretty rapid progress. Getting to nidan is fairly common.

But after they leave, the majority stop, or do maybe once a week at most. A friend of mine carried on to do a PhD, so was able to continue quite a lot - 20+ years later he is 6th dan!

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ninjutsu is the hackers' martial art - it's full of clever exploits of the body based on a very good understanding of the physics involved. It emphasizes practicing real fighting situations.

Is there any schools today teaching real Ninjutsu?

There are questions about the validity/lineage of much ninjutsu taught - caveat emptor...

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#187
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you would recommend as a more practical form of self defense training for those not working in a high-risk environment?

If you want self-defence, my impression is that world-wide Krav Maga is generally a form that manages to hold a high standard across different locations and instructors. But as always, practice will never be any better than the instructor and the students he or she accepts. In general, any martial school that focuses not on competition, can be good (the set of techniques are not really that different, they're all way…

The competitive element of judo is a pro and a con. Executing a technique against someone actively trying to resist is very educational and good for your training - it shows what works (vs practicing with someone who just lets you throw them). But trying just to win has its own drawbacks and leads to weakness and a very narrow focus.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#188
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the explanation. The book looks quite interesting. But that still doesn't explain why the armies of Western nations seemingly committed less and less serious atrocities. Or is that just an illusion because "history is written by the victors"?

Going by personal anecdote (well, by my grandmother who fled Silesia as a child): German refugees in late WW2 largely considered the Russians far more gruesome (violent, rape-y, etc, especially when drunk) than the British and Americans, although some considered their brutality justified by what they were hearing from how German soldiers (and the SS especially) had treated Eastern Europeans. I'm guessing it's because…

> I'm guessing it's because Germans had racial propaganda dehumanizing Eastern Europeans

The Russians also distributed plenty of propoganda pamphlets to their troops to show no mercy to the Germans (including citizens) as they faught their way towards Berlin. Propoganda comping from some high-ranking soviets, not just within the military. It was said to be a big contributing factor to their notorious behaviour afterwards.

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My impression is a lot of soldiers and contemporaneous sources said Japanese fought to the death, engaged in suicidal 'banzai charges', killed themselves rather than surrender, and that those few who did surrender thought it was shameful That is the propaganda/"history" that I am talking about. If you look at previous battles/wars, the japanese soldiers did surrender. The japanese soldiers did surrender in the begi…

What's your source for the 'myth' of the Bataan Death March? Even the Japanese have apologized for it....and for other extreme militarist stuff. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39145098/ns/world_news-asiapacific... There are people who say the German concentration camps were 'myths' too. There are memes that propagate because they serve someone's agenda... maybe the same applies to the narrative that the "allied soldiers […

> What's your source for the 'myth' of the Bataan Death March?

"100–650 American prisoners of war died on the march before they reached their destination."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March

I'm not saying the march didn't happen. I'm just saying that the propaganda surrounding the bataan "death" march is a myth. Growing up, you'd think it was worst thing in the world. But then you learn that hardly any americans died and that those americans who died were invaders/colonizers of the philiphines themselves and just as evil as the japanese invaders. That's what I'm getting at.

> There are people who say the German concentration camps were 'myths' too.

Okay? What does that have to do with what is being discussed?

Re: Bushido: Way of Total Bullshit

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you haven't heard of the mass rape of german and japanese women by the victorious allies. The allies raped far more women than the axis.

The allies raped far more women than the axis. I'd be very appreciative if you could link to a source for this claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_...

Millions of german women were raped by the allies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_...

Tens of thousands of japanese women were raped after ww2. The only reason that more japanese women weren't raped was because the japanese government provided "comfort women" for the allied troops.

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