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Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

nytimes.com

81–90 of 177 posts

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#81
post #3

I found this article really frustrating. The US government forces American tech companies to spy on users, so US companies are to blame? These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat? The author is amazingly willing to accord French bureaucrats the right to regulate the cultural consumption of Frenchmen. How is this defensible? Should we knock Netflix because it…

>These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat? Just because something is well liked, does not mean it is beneficial to society overall. Junk food and facebook come too mind. I love Netflix but part of me feels my life would be better without it too.

> Just because something is well liked, does not mean it is beneficial to society overall.

Granted, but who gets to decide what is beneficial?

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#82
post #33
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not just a funny coincidence -- the American left has for decades been slowly allying themselves against the West. That's why no one on the left batted an eye when Google chose Yuri Kochiyama for their Google Doodle, despite that she said in 2003: "...I consider Osama bin Laden as one of the people that I admire. To me, he is in the category of Malcolm X, Che Guevara, Patrice Lumumba, Fidel Castro.... I thank…

Bin Laden killed many fewer innocent people than were killed and continue to be killed in the American middle eastern wars. Do you feel that Google should deny the doodle to anyone who says anything good about Gerorge W Bush or Barack Obama?

[deleted]

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#83
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are you prevented from visiting a wide range of websites? That is them deciding for you what you can and can't do. If you're not Chinese citizen then it's your choice being there. But if you're a Chinese citizen then all choices are made for you, what qualifies you as a slave.

Of course not being able to access a website you want (and censorship in general) is not good, but comparing that to slavery is absolutely ridiculous.

Not being able to make choices for yourself is slavery.

Slavery is not about hard work or poor conditions. There were plenty free men who had it harder and some slaves that led cushy life.

Slavery is about not being a master for yourself.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#84
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "rendering all your organisation void, cutting the money and support for the smallest groups." How does Netflix not offering enough French TV shows do that? Did the government just stop giving them money once Netflix showed up? Also, encouraging Netflix to take on more local content is one thing. I'm sure they'd love to. Forcing them to fund the creation of local content is another thing completely. These governmen…

> These governments are looking to require that a foreign company fund domestic businesses to be able to access their markets So, like the All-American clause for almost all US govt. contracts? Or the US punishment for VW, requiring them to produce specific cars in the US? > Did the government just stop giving them money once Netflix showed up? Where is the government supposed to get the money from, once they can’t m…

Netflix isn't filling government contracts

Nor has Netflix lied to governments for years about the efficiency of their products and purposefully built devices to defeat government tests. VW is either facing massive multi billion dollar fines or has to reach other agreements.

VW has had access to the US for decades. Them building electric cars in the US has nothing to do with access to the US market.

Netflix will, in fact, be paying to license domestic content. And the more their customers watch domestic content, the more they will pay the content providers. The government itself will be cut out of the loop and that's really the problem here.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered the "non-facebook users" coordinate offline, in-person and can use other technologies like SMS, email, phone calls, IM, chat apps, running into friends at the store, visiting a friend's workplace and "passing the word along" telling friend A who tells friend B?

Your examples aside from chat apps are quite unrealistic. I don't even know when was the last time I invited someone to an event using any of the listed methods, it must have been years. But even if running into friends at the store was a thing, it doesn't mean that Facebook is not used by a billion people for organising social events and is therefore beneficial to them.

Wild, I just got invited to join a group for coffee over SMS. And before that, to meet with a technical group on MeetUp. And before that to meet up with my friends on GroupMe.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#86
post #58
post #3

I found this article really frustrating. The US government forces American tech companies to spy on users, so US companies are to blame? These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat? The author is amazingly willing to accord French bureaucrats the right to regulate the cultural consumption of Frenchmen. How is this defensible? Should we knock Netflix because it…

The article starts by asking you to view things from another perspective. It's not asking you to "knock" Netflix, it's inviting you to consider the point of view of people who do. American media is subtly hegemonising. All media carries with it the culture of those who produce it, but US media also carries a very strong assumption of "defaultness": that everyone is a (mostly white) American at heart. What effect does…

That doesn't seem to be true. Bollywood is thriving. So are Mexican telenovelas. Chinese influence in culture and technology is on the rise - witness the attempts by the west to clone WeChat. Japanese influence on western movies is so common as to be unremarkable.

Maybe the problem with Gaelic, Welsh and French language movies/etc is that they just suck.

People learning American alongside their own language, while Americans (and Brits) don't learn another language: that makes the cultural exchange more one-way. Americans don't have to worry about French culture seeping in and erasing American cultural values...

Americans and British are both worried about external cultural influence - just not French influence. The French are now culturally irrelevant, but that doesn't mean the Anglosphere is somehow a global monopoly.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#87
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not just a funny coincidence -- the American left has for decades been slowly allying themselves against the West. That's why no one on the left batted an eye when Google chose Yuri Kochiyama for their Google Doodle, despite that she said in 2003: "...I consider Osama bin Laden as one of the people that I admire. To me, he is in the category of Malcolm X, Che Guevara, Patrice Lumumba, Fidel Castro.... I thank…

At least she had a good reason to not trust the US government. The interment camps were a disgrace.

[deleted]

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#88
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that the rest of Europe is less anti-America/anti-Capitalism than France?

Absolutely!

That's good to know. A lot of what we hear about European opinions are by way of France.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#89
post #72
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American left has for decades been slowly allying themselves against the West. The US, including both parties, has been shifting rightward for decades, so it makes sense that leftists are feeling alienated.

Progressives move forever more to the left, and then accuse the right of "moving right" because we didn't move to your new definition of center fast enough. Excuse me, conservatives have not actually managed to get signed any major conservative initiative in the US in 50 years, because of that line. Our government is bigger than it has ever been: -we haven't privatized schools or gotten vouchers, -we haven't abolishe…

> Progressives move forever farther and farther to the left, and then accuse the right of "moving right" because we didn't move to your new definition of center fast enough.

The individual mandate for purchase of private insurance + subsidy system adopted as "Obamacare" was first proposed by the Republicans and insurance industry lobbyists in opposition to healthcare reform efforts under the Clinton administration.

Today, its a Democratic achievement seen as socialism by the Right.

> -we haven't privatized schools or gotten vouchers,

Both traditional public schools and traditional private schools are losing enrollment to homeschooling and public-funded, privately-operated charters -- both of which are things that have been pushed by the right.

(The right's also unsuccessfully pushed vouchers and drastically cutting public school funding, but when your pushing for multiple and mutually-exclusive things, you can't really characterize it as your opponents winning when you get some of the things that your side is pushing for instead of the others.)

> -we haven't been able to abolish any major social program,

Well, in the 1990s you got to abolish AFDC, one of the biggest social programs in the country, and replace it with the more-restrictive TANF.

> -we have only lost ground on gun rights and religious rights,

Actually, the federal "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" and state laws modeled on it have advanced religious rights to discriminate which had previously been found to violate laws which existed prior to those.

And, on 2nd amendment rights, major advances were made by the right in the Supreme Court in D.C. v. Heller (2008) -- holding that the 2nd Amendment created a personal right in federal enclaves -- and McDonald v. City of Chicago (2010) -- holding that the 2nd Amendment created a personal right incorporated against state restrictions by the 14th Amendment.

> -we have not been able to slow the judicial activism of the courts,

And the left really wishes you would slow the judicial activism of your courts, such as the bizarre ruling in NFIB v. Sebelius that Congress can't set the terms for State participation in a program (Medicaid) which is otherwise within Congress power to establish.

> To a conservative of the Goldwater years the Republican party of today would look like a bunch of Socialists.

Well, we could ask a conservative of the Goldwater years about that, like the one that's the odds-on favorite to the nominee of the Democratic Party for President of the United States in 2016. Well, except someone did, back in 1996 (on NPR, 1/13/1996):

"SCOTT SIMON: I mean, did you ever back in the ’60s, between when — I believe you were a Goldwater girl —

HILLARY CLINTON: That’s right.

SCOTT SIMON: — and whenever you became politically –

HILLARY CLINTON: That’s right. And I feel like my political beliefs are rooted in the conservatism that I was raised with. I don’t recognize this new brand of Republicanism that is afoot now, which I consider to be very reactionary, not conservative in many respects. I am very proud that I was a Goldwater girl."

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat? Just because something is well liked, does not mean it is beneficial to society overall. Junk food and facebook come too mind. I love Netflix but part of me feels my life would be better without it too.

> Just because something is well liked, does not mean it is beneficial to society overall. Granted, but who gets to decide what is beneficial?

It is decided by a slow and deliberate process with many voices.
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