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Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

nytimes.com

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Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#41

Post by zer00eyz »

barisser wrote: post #3

I found this article really frustrating. The US government forces American tech companies to spy on users, so US companies are to blame? These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat? The author is amazingly willing to accord French bureaucrats the right to regulate the cultural consumption of Frenchmen. How is this defensible? Should we knock Netflix because it…

>The US government forces American tech companies to spy on users, so US companies are to blame?

The US government is to blame here, the companies are penalized for our governments belligerent behavior. The alternatives (war, sanctions) are much less appealing or viable.

>These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat?

In the case of physical goods, this has been happening for YEARS, and in both directions, in the form of import/export tariffs. For years, the tariff on corn going into mexico from the US kept local corn farmers in business, with NAFTA this was no longer in place, and a LOT Of them went out of business.

> Companies like this don't come out of Europe for a reason.

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/wireds-100-hottest-european-s...

Europe has a thriving start up scene, and quite a few major tech players (SAP springs to mind as the largest). Not to mention interesting efforts like Raspberry pi and Arduino.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#42

Post by criley2 »

dougmany wrote: post #26
barisser wrote: post #3

I found this article really frustrating. The US government forces American tech companies to spy on users, so US companies are to blame? These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat? The author is amazingly willing to accord French bureaucrats the right to regulate the cultural consumption of Frenchmen. How is this defensible? Should we knock Netflix because it…

>These services are so useful and well-liked around the world that they should be considered a threat? Just because something is well liked, does not mean it is beneficial to society overall. Junk food and facebook come too mind. I love Netflix but part of me feels my life would be better without it too.

Facebook is beneficial to society, it has dramatically changed how people organize and communicate.

You can always tell the difference between facebook users and non facebook users now.

The non-facebook users don't hang out as much and don't show up to group events as much.

"Why wasn't I invited?"

"I hit everyone in the FB invites"

"Oh I don't have facebook"

"You're not using the tool our entire social group uses to organize our social experience-- there's your answer"

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#43

Post by zanny »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #30
wonder_er wrote: post #6

I see four parties in play, but the author describes only two: 1. Foreign governments 2. American government 3. American companies ----Not mentioned in the article---- 4. Foreign citizens 5. American citizens Groups 3, 4, and 5 are more-or-less aligned. Groups 1, 2, and 3 have more conflict than anything else. Since American companies are doing an end-run around control, governments are frustrated. I'd never expect o…

Maybe 4 and 5 are not quite so aligned? In democracies, governments should still be viewed as instruments of the voters to a significant extent. Significant quantities of French voters have supported a government that tries to preserve and extend the French language and culture. In some ways, countering the influence of a large American company and the culture it imports can be seen as a legitimate expression of Fren…

> governments should still be viewed as instruments of the voters to a significant extent.

At least in the US at the federal level, certainly not.[1]

[1]: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#44

Post by rangibaby »

hodwik wrote: post #18
kelukelugames wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Osama bin Laden write a declaration about culture invasion from the West?

That's not just a funny coincidence -- the American left has for decades been slowly allying themselves against the West. That's why no one on the left batted an eye when Google chose Yuri Kochiyama for their Google Doodle, despite that she said in 2003: "...I consider Osama bin Laden as one of the people that I admire. To me, he is in the category of Malcolm X, Che Guevara, Patrice Lumumba, Fidel Castro.... I thank…

At least she had a good reason to not trust the US government. The interment camps were a disgrace.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#45

Post by DominikR »

marxidad wrote: post #29
DominikR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it not problematic when American tech form an oligopoly on internet services? They are the best so they won. I have no problem with that and I don't think anyone should have as long as there's no abuse of power. > Especially when these services need to bend to the whims of American government. This is what I have a problem with.

They didn't win because they are the best, unless you mean they are the best at winning for arbitrary reasons, like random market forces.

It doesn't look random to me when the biggest IT companies all originate from a small area in or near San Francisco.

The US government spent a massive amount of money over decades in infrastructure and in government contracts which in combination with the right legal framework (and capitalism) created this dominance.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#46

Post by [deleted] »

woah wrote: post #33
hodwik wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not just a funny coincidence -- the American left has for decades been slowly allying themselves against the West. That's why no one on the left batted an eye when Google chose Yuri Kochiyama for their Google Doodle, despite that she said in 2003: "...I consider Osama bin Laden as one of the people that I admire. To me, he is in the category of Malcolm X, Che Guevara, Patrice Lumumba, Fidel Castro.... I thank…

Bin Laden killed many fewer innocent people than were killed and continue to be killed in the American middle eastern wars. Do you feel that Google should deny the doodle to anyone who says anything good about Gerorge W Bush or Barack Obama?

[deleted]

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#47

Post by sievebrain »

hodwik wrote: post #31
sievebrain wrote: post #20

Don't mix up France and Europe. Yes, the EU tends to dance to France's tune, but their attitudes are not universal or even dominant throughout the Europe.

Are you saying that the rest of Europe is less anti-America/anti-Capitalism than France?

Absolutely!

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#48

Post by bleuarff »

wildmusings wrote: post #32
di4na wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's look at it the other way. Launching a movie cost a ton of money. So to keep a diverse culture ( we all agreee diversity is great isn't it?) and diverse way to think, you need to help less mainstream way to think. You spend years elaborating complex way to let mainstream exists and makes money, without disturbing it too much, but still keep a working amount of culture disruptor and new ideas growing. And you eve…

Shouldn't it be up to individual French people to decide what they watch on TV or the internet? Why should the coercive authority of the state have any say?

Probably because without these regulations, there would be no visibility for niche productions, no way for them to reach the few people who want to watch them. That may run contradictory to capitalist beliefs, but the system intends to allow existence of films/music/cultural products which (regardless of quality) have too few customers to survive in a non-regulated market.

If you wish to keep having diversity in your cultural industry, that's not a bad thing.

Re: Why the World Is Drawing Battle Lines Against American Tech Giants

#50

Post by arca_vorago »

I hope that people will learn that the fact the giants are so big is what the core problem is, even for American citizens. For example, the filter-bubble is real and dangerous, along with operation mockingbird (I'm sure under a new name now) propaganda pushes, and the giants become useful mediums for things like pretending a war or invasion is OK or the banks "need this next bailout of 200zillion dollars".

What we need is to move to decentralized platforms not controlled by any one company of person or government. Centralization is a weakness, not a strength, and decentralization is a strength. These are fundamental lessons of the internet, and it's high time we made sure the fresh geeks who didn't live through the 90's cryptowars are taught it's lessons.

FOSS is where it's at, and I am convinced RMS will be seen a visionary to ahead of his time to be fully understood or appreciated in the capitalist society he spawned in.

When Microsfaceboogleslapple Brain interface comes out and everyone starts plugging in, I will either be using the GPLv6Brain or nothing at all.

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