Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why we should fear a cashless world

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 257 posts

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#221

Post by xixi77 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #217
xixi77 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As has been said, road paving is a commodity business, so the reason why this particular road might be that expensive is probably that it's a remote road on difficult terrain. Which raises the question: should this very expensive road, which is primarily used by members of this specific and admittedly wealthy community, be subsidized by the rest of (relatively) poor taxpayers of that state?

Yes. That's called infrastructure. Whenever America has 'subsidized' infrastructure, the nation has seen many fold return. Whether it was rural electrification, or secondary roads, or rural mail delivery, having it a given for everybody means anybody can assume a certain level of service. Commerce thrives on that.

I see the level of service argument. But, if an argument applies to roads or mail delivery, or landline phones, why does it not apply to fast internet service or cellular coverage or many other things, which have been doing just fine without centrally funded infrastructure?

Also, shifting the cost of such roads to everyone encourages even more construction in remote areas, which doesn't seem like a good thing to promote...

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#222

Post by lagadu »

flatline wrote: post #136
lagadu wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By storing your cash in a bank, you are exposed to both the bank's insolvency Only for very large amounts, at least in Europe, the central bank insures your money from its own reserves in case of bank failure up to a certain amount, AFAIK typically in the hundreds of thousands of €/local equivalent.

If a bunch of banks go under at once, or even one big bank with a sufficient number of claims, who's to say the insurers will even be able to pay out on that? Nonetheless, I always find this type of apocalyptic thinking to be humorous - why do people think that their cash will be worth anything if the financial system collapses? Another motivation would be if you are concerned about having your assets frozen.

It's not insurers who pay it's the central bank. It has control over the currency itself; because of that it can (and has to) always pay.

> Another motivation would be if you are concerned about having your assets frozen.

I'm with you on that one.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#223

Post by newjersey »

EdSharkey wrote: post #218
newjersey wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also I absolutely hate how people think cutting government income is a good way to cut wasteful spending because it is immediately obvious it doesn't work. It can't work. We cheered when that scumbag Reagan talked about starving the beast. It was clear that even George HW Bush, Reagan's running mate knew it was a stupid idea. The problem that neocons won't talk about is that we don't have a single preferential way of…

"we don't have a single preferential way of allocating budget." That's a very charitable way of saying there are no priorities in Washington and there never will be. I don't mind discussions of cutting the federal government drastically even with overblown threats of riots and unrest. Why continue to prop up a federal system that was never designed to scale up to the size it is and that is out of control? It can't be…

A major issue here is income inequality. I understand that a part of me says "well, what's wrong with differences in the quality of life between someone living in some town in state A and someone else living in some town in state B.

We can talk about our successes with independent school districts where communities proudly fund their own schools with taxes at rates that they think are the best. Or take local police and EMS or local utilities for that matter. It is glorious when it works as it creates a sense of ownership and responsibility towards a community resource.

I agree with you in broad strokes that we can and should support devolution. However, I assert that we should not do this because our federal government was not "designed" to do this but because it is the right thing to do and it is in all our best interest to do it. We should not do something or avoid doing something based solely on what the system was "designed" to do. We should be willing to make changes to the system as we learn new things. I cringe on the amount of reverence with which we hold our founding fathers. The United States is a well recognized nation throughout the world and we do not need this crutch. (:

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#224

Post by scholia »

Symbiote wrote: post #101
Ntrails wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My credit card bill this month is £500, That seems easier than "i had n trips to the ATM plus I think I had £30 in my wallet from last month and I got £25 from donna for the booze we bought in France over the summer"? Not only that, I can download a monthly spreadsheet of all my transactions, pivot them into a simple table and so on and so forth. Data out the wazoo. £105 a month on tube fares. £235 a month on lunch.…

My bank (Danske Bank) even does that for me. When I log in, it shows a bar chart of spending categorized for the previous 30 days (housing, transport, food etc). Changing the range changes what transactions are summarized, and what transactions are shown in detail below the graph. Clicking a graph category further filters and shows the transactions that match, with the graph changing to more specific sub-categories (…

I wish a UK bank did that! (Maybe one does, but I haven't heard about it....)

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#225

Post by phlip9 »

In theory, cryptocurrencies like Zcash [1] should solve the issues with transaction privacy. However, enforcing taxation when using a totally private and anonymous currency disconnected from government control would be nontrivial if not impossible. Likely the reason why governments are so against them.

[1] Zcash: https://z.cash/

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#226

Post by ArkyBeagle »

clarkmoody wrote: post #96
fweespee_ch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You meant "cost for government," right? Well, depends on if you want a government capable of affording to pay for public education, roads, military, etc. I mean if you care about none of these things and want the government completely destroyed, a 50% revenue cut might seem okay to you.

Of course I care about those things. I simply think that government is not required to provide them.

So the math in play here is "what are public goods? non-rival and non-excludable.

There! Done in one :)

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#227

Post by EdSharkey »

newjersey wrote: post #223
EdSharkey wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we don't have a single preferential way of allocating budget." That's a very charitable way of saying there are no priorities in Washington and there never will be. I don't mind discussions of cutting the federal government drastically even with overblown threats of riots and unrest. Why continue to prop up a federal system that was never designed to scale up to the size it is and that is out of control? It can't be…

A major issue here is income inequality. I understand that a part of me says "well, what's wrong with differences in the quality of life between someone living in some town in state A and someone else living in some town in state B. We can talk about our successes with independent school districts where communities proudly fund their own schools with taxes at rates that they think are the best. Or take local police a…

It's not a crutch. Separation of powers is a desirable thing because it tries to prevent the concentration of too much power in a body, group, or person. The Bill of Rights and constitution specifically LIMITS the powers of the federal government. America is an experiment in government that is no longer running, but its edifice is still there - which does not scale because it was designed _not to_.

Any power or service the federal government was not designed to own is reserved for the individual states. All the wealth transfer programs, pension plans, and public services we have now federally can be delivered by the states. So yes, there is a "design" there, we're just not adhering to it.

And when it all reverts to the states, then we can have real fights over what's the "right thing" for the state to do and where the dollars go.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#228

Post by bornwithabeard »

st3v3ndungan wrote: post #110
pc86 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a super easy fix for that, if the people have the will to demand it: require receipts for all transactions, allow consumers to report business who do not give receipts, and have large fines for businesses who still don't. Offer cash rewards to consumers who report businesses that are repeat offenders.

> if the people have the will to demand it I think Mitch Hedberg put it best: I give you a dollar, you give me a donut. End of transaction. What's a consumer's interest in asking for a receipt? Especially when you can get a discount instead?

>What's a consumer's interest in asking for a receipt? Especially when you can get a discount instead?

Because some people need an alibi. Patrice Oneal put it best: https://youtu.be/RrBPmoIAyts?t=100

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#229

Post by [deleted] »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #215
LordKano wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Too high" is not an objective measure. If the people of Scandinavia feel that what they're getting in return is worth it, they'll pay the taxes. People in Scandinavian countries have a higher amount of trust in their governments too. I'm sure that has a lot to with it. Someone who believes that their tax money is going to be used for the legitimate(In his or her mind) needs of society has a greater incentive to pay…

Exactly this, trust. People give money to churches willingly when they trust the Church will use those funds to do good work. People pay taxes willingly when they see that they are being spent on things that help the community. When that trust erodes, through government sinecures and throwing too much money at a brother-in-law's construction firm to build infrastructure, etc. Then people are unwilling to fund that ac…

[deleted]

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#230

Post by [deleted] »

st3v3ndungan wrote: post #110
pc86 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a super easy fix for that, if the people have the will to demand it: require receipts for all transactions, allow consumers to report business who do not give receipts, and have large fines for businesses who still don't. Offer cash rewards to consumers who report businesses that are repeat offenders.

> if the people have the will to demand it I think Mitch Hedberg put it best: I give you a dollar, you give me a donut. End of transaction. What's a consumer's interest in asking for a receipt? Especially when you can get a discount instead?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN