Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

wamc.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 371 posts

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#151

Post by vacri »

Houshalter wrote: post #39
Cookingboy wrote: post #12

And in this age of information and technology, many of these people are voting to decide the next leader of the only superpower left on Earth. This may sound grossly elitist, but democracy can be super scary sometimes.

Democracy is a really shitty form of government. It prevents tyrants, and it prevents a single party from holding power for too long. Which are great benefits over, e.g. monarchies. But the average voter isn't informed enough to really understand all the issues. So who wins isn't really correlated with who is best or who is right. In my ideal form of government, the representatives would not be elected, but randomly…

A large part of being a politician is the social skills to get people onside. A random sampling based on education and IQ isn't going to give you that.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#152

Post by rorykoehler »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #98
hackuser wrote: post #19

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts " is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are…

People think like this because of companies like Apple who make proprietary everything. Confusion is a natural byproduct of this practice

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#153

Post by hackuser »

j1o1h1n wrote: post #150
hackuser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outcomes vary greatly by school, zip code, and socio-economic class. Are children in the wrong zip code just lazy? Why do the children in poor families perform so much worse than in rich families? It doesn't, by any measure, appear to be a consequence of the children's efforts.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151216082154.h... "the influence of genes on intelligence varies according to people's social class in the US, but not in Western Europe or Australia. " "That is, the relatively robust healthcare and social-welfare programs in Western Europe and Australia may buffer some of the negative environmental effects typically associated with poverty."

One reason those studies are so controversial is the fear that people will horribly misapply them. Their fears are confirmed regularly, even among regularly sophisticated audiences such as HN.

What you write is not applicable, for many reasons.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#154

Post by ivansavz »

bigger_cheese wrote: post #37
tokenadult wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study is about comparative data, and I can well believe (having lived in another country) that there are countries where a larger percentage of adults than in the United States can use commonplace technology of today. The math literacy (numeracy) advantage for other countries I absolutely believe, as I have read the textbooks from other countries (I am an American who can read Chinese), and the textbooks are simp…

I think part of the issue is the corporate lobbying culture that exists in America. I read an article a while ago about what goes into selecting textbooks in American schools apparently textbook companies lobby the education departments to use their brand of books so rather than getting the best textbook schools get the book from whichever company "bribed" the officials the most. Because it all goes through politicia…

Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about better textbooks for university, but high school textbooks are even worse. Total nonsense[1]. It's a shame. Hopefully OER can improve things a bit...

[1] Richard Feynman has a revealing story about how textbooks are selected by comitee http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#155

Post by nfd »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

Look, I was homeschooled, and it's possible to do it right. Don't get me wrong. The way I was homeschooled, however, wreaked total havoc on my long-term mental health (though you better believe I ran the equivalent of "lock your child in a basement with an Apple II and a book of documentation on Applesoft Basic" on myself and learned what a sweet hack looks like). I ran headfirst into college with poor social skills and no practice working under actual pressure. It's taken a nasty toll on my body and I'm still struggling to keep my weight from dipping even more. I learned a lot of lessons really, really quickly. I'm a natural extrovert. It was a special hell.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Sounds like a pretty good idea, even. _Please be damn sure you know what you're doing._ And I'm here if you've got questions.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#156

Post by awa »

jorgecurio wrote: post #66

yeah just talking to elementary school kids from America vs. Korea was an eye opening experience. I couldn't help but feel that the future is kinda bleak for American society because so much of it is centered around jock/warrior culture that places far more emphasis on physical education whereas in South Korean kids who study and is intelligent is revered as the alpha male model. Kinda explains why South Korea ranks…

Can you give a reference for "South Korea ranks #1 for the most innovative economy"?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#157

Post by Cyphus »

rorykoehler wrote: post #152
squeaky-clean wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts " is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are…

People think like this because of companies like Apple who make proprietary everything. Confusion is a natural byproduct of this practice

Perhaps somewhat, but I think the main factor is that computers change much faster than these people expect. "No [family member], this Bluetooth mouse isn't going to work with your XP era desktop."

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#158

Post by ubernostrum »

murjinsee wrote: post #106
squeaky-clean wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts " is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are…

Thanks for saying this! I work with phones and it's sad to hear people talk about the ever-widening gap technology places between them and their children. Too many people from younger generations make fun of their parents for being technically illiterate. I spend an hour a week at least bringing my mom up to speed on Google Photos, iOS content management, etc. It feels good seeing somebody learn how to do things for…

Sort of parallel to mindcrime's comment: the thing that makes me sad is not necessarily the knowledge gap, but the pride people take in it. "I'm just not a computer person" is too often said happily, when being able to usefully interact with a computer is already a must-have skill for most decent jobs.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#159

Post by JabavuAdams »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

Please don't fall into the "math is useless, why do we have to learn this?" camp.

The math taught in high-school is pretty simple stuff and if we frowned upon innumeracy as much as we do illiteracy, people would just learn it. Reading is hard but we spend the time and make the students do it anyway. We don't give them the "who needs this reading crap" script.

Math skills are life skills for a thinking citizen of a democracy.

Every term I have game development students who struggle with basic arithmetic (fractions, exponents), but somehow want to make a game.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#160

Post by gedy »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #123
mdorazio wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be common. You can move to whatever school district you want to (if you have the money for housing there) and get that same level of education. No one's forcing you to send your kids to sub-par public schools.

Oh man. You should try raising a family in Southern California. See what kind of school district you can afford to live in. See if you still believe that "you can move to whatever school district you want to." Oy.

There are some excellent charter schools in many districts
Post reply on HN