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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#11

Post by derefr »

bnolsen wrote: post #4
victorhugo31337 wrote: post #3

This is what happens when no child is left behind. How can EVERYONE graduate from HS without lowering the bar?

Absolutely utterly agreed. Trying to pull along students who want to fail pulls down the ones who want to succeed. The American dream used to be about letting those who work hard succeed, and letting those who didn't fail. And anyone could choose to more from the fail to the succeed pool.

NCLB deals with very few kids who "want to fail." It mostly deals with kids with learning/communication disabilities. Those kids don't have the choice of just "moving from the fail to the succeed pool"; they have to be given the opportunity to succeed you're talking about by giving them increased assistance. Which takes budget and teacher-time away from other students, which decreases class performance.

If you really want to fix education, don't repeal NCLB; amend it to state that special-needs kids get education vouchers with for going to a school specifically enabled to help them, with at least one state-funded school so enabled in each state; and then drop the requirement that any other school handle them in normal classes.

This would be better for the student, for the teacher, and for all the other students. The only people it would negatively affect are the parents, who would be forced to either homeschool, or move the family to a place where schooling for their child is available.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#13

Post by tokenadult »

madengr wrote: post #6

Not able to send a text messsage? That I don't believe.

The study is about comparative data, and I can well believe (having lived in another country) that there are countries where a larger percentage of adults than in the United States can use commonplace technology of today. The math literacy (numeracy) advantage for other countries I absolutely believe, as I have read the textbooks from other countries (I am an American who can read Chinese), and the textbooks are simpler better in other countries than they are in the United States.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#14

Post by laxatives »

Cookingboy wrote: post #12

And in this age of information and technology, many of these people are voting to decide the next leader of the only superpower left on Earth. This may sound grossly elitist, but democracy can be super scary sometimes.

Maybe Trump is the only politician with the knowledge/freedom to act on that realization, leading to landslide victories by appealing to the lowest common denominator in US voters. I guess that's exactly what democracy is.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#15

Post by rankam »

derefr wrote: post #11
bnolsen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely utterly agreed. Trying to pull along students who want to fail pulls down the ones who want to succeed. The American dream used to be about letting those who work hard succeed, and letting those who didn't fail. And anyone could choose to more from the fail to the succeed pool.

NCLB deals with very few kids who "want to fail." It mostly deals with kids with learning/communication disabilities. Those kids don't have the choice of just "moving from the fail to the succeed pool"; they have to be given the opportunity to succeed you're talking about by giving them increased assistance. Which takes budget and teacher-time away from other students, which decreases class performance. If you really…

This isn't true at at all. I worked at the NYCDOE for 3 years planning, implementing, and executing NCLB. NCLB deals with passing tax dollars to private companies - plain and simple. Superintendents/Schools/Teachers no longer create their own curriculum - it's all purchased and has to be to meet the regulatory requirements of NCLB (amongst other regulations which benefit corporations).

To clarify - I think corporations should profit as much as possible. I do have an issue with companies profiting from making shit products that comply with regulations and acting like they are making a positive contribution to society.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#16

Post by tw04 »

laxatives wrote: post #14
Cookingboy wrote: post #12

And in this age of information and technology, many of these people are voting to decide the next leader of the only superpower left on Earth. This may sound grossly elitist, but democracy can be super scary sometimes.

Maybe Trump is the only politician with the knowledge/freedom to act on that realization, leading to landslide victories by appealing to the lowest common denominator in US voters. I guess that's exactly what democracy is.

In theory that's why we have delegates. Unfortunately the delegates are now bought and paid for by the same corporate interests that have our country in its current state...

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#17

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

Cookingboy wrote: post #12

And in this age of information and technology, many of these people are voting to decide the next leader of the only superpower left on Earth. This may sound grossly elitist, but democracy can be super scary sometimes.

Voting is considered holy, a sacred ritual immune from criticism. There exist alternatives like sortition - I favor a combination of sortiton and standardized testing.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#19

Post by hackuser »

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland.

The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message.

Something to consider about your users.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#20

Post by hackuser »

bnolsen wrote: post #4
victorhugo31337 wrote: post #3

This is what happens when no child is left behind. How can EVERYONE graduate from HS without lowering the bar?

Absolutely utterly agreed. Trying to pull along students who want to fail pulls down the ones who want to succeed. The American dream used to be about letting those who work hard succeed, and letting those who didn't fail. And anyone could choose to more from the fail to the succeed pool.

> The American dream used to be about letting those who work hard succeed, and letting those who didn't fail.

I've never heard the latter. When was this true? According to one history I read, one of the appeals of the New Deal programs in the 1930s is that we would be better than the Old World (i.e., Europe) and not leave our own citizens in the gutter.

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