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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#71
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

That's depressing... poor kids.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#72

This is what happens when no child is left behind. How can EVERYONE graduate from HS without lowering the bar?

Outcomes vary greatly by school, zip code, and socio-economic class. Are children in the wrong zip code just lazy? Why do the children in poor families perform so much worse than in rich families? It doesn't, by any measure, appear to be a consequence of the children's efforts.

The problem is multi-fold. If you have a bunch of low quality high schools pumping out borderline illiterate "graduates" just due to dumb bureaucratic inertia and politics then that devalues the high school diploma as a credential (which we've certainly seen). Now we have a lot of HS graduates who can't get a non-minimum wage job without going on to college, and all the enormous problems we've witnessed that causing.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#73
post #46
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

And what if they don't want to do web dev work, ever?

Yeah, this comment is ridiculous. "Public schools suck so I'll force my kids to do what I never had the chance to." Great logic.

My dad was athletic and supported me in being a nerdy band kid programmer. I will do the same for mine. I will make sure that the school they go to is good, but I won't force them to be passionate about something by bribing them with $60/hr.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#74
post #63
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

As a publicly educated kid who started working when he was 15-1/2 (the legal minimum age in CA for a work permit at the time), I'd encourage you to rethink the importance of child-like innocence. Not that I regret my choices, but that 13 is just a little too young to be career-oriented, and 16 is probably the bare minimum. I was into computers at that age, but if my decisions were based on profitability or profession…

Great perspective. I didn't start work until I was 16, and the dishwashing jobs (with both good and bad bosses) I had really set me up to appreciate what a great gig programming can be.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#75
post #63
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

As a publicly educated kid who started working when he was 15-1/2 (the legal minimum age in CA for a work permit at the time), I'd encourage you to rethink the importance of child-like innocence. Not that I regret my choices, but that 13 is just a little too young to be career-oriented, and 16 is probably the bare minimum. I was into computers at that age, but if my decisions were based on profitability or profession…

A hundred times this. I don't think perspective can be taught by explanation alone. You know else comes with perspective? Often humility, empathy, and emotional stability.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#76
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many public schools are just fine, if not excellent.. Something like 90% of my 300-student graduating class ended up in college, several dozen at Ivys or "near-Ivy" schools. We had intensive programming classes and maybe 15 or 20 AP options. This was just a random upper middle class district in the Midwest, we were rarely on the list of the 100-best schools in the state.

That doesn't pass the smell test all. Your school sent 10% of its students to elite colleges, that's clearly not common.

It doesn't have to be common. You can move to whatever school district you want to (if you have the money for housing there) and get that same level of education. No one's forcing you to send your kids to sub-par public schools.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#77
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

So you are just going to teach them what you think is important? Home schooling has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.

Doesn't state approved home schooling (in the USA) usually include aptitude testing at a local school? My impression was that the curriculum was set by the school, and the teaching was done by the parent.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#78
I won't go into much detail because I would wind up ranting and only be somewhat understandable..

However, as an American citizen who went to public schools as a child/teenager and am now finishing up at a public state university, I'm inclined to say that the education system here is a complete wash.

It works for some people who fit the one-size mold that the system here seems to target, but there are a large number of children/teenagers/college-aged students for whom it does not.

That isn't to say one set of students are anymore gifted than the other. Just that the approach to education is deeply flawed. It works for the type of student it is set up for, and has little to no appreciation for other types, least of which if they even exist. The approach needs a serious revolution in order for our country to have a successful academic system.

source: I am from California and the state university I currently attend and am almost graduated from is in CA as well.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#79
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

So you are just going to teach them what you think is important? Home schooling has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.

Whose judgement do you trust enough that you're willing to outsource this decision to? Would you let esaym teach your children what he thinks is important? What if he was your child's teacher?

At the end of the day you're placing your trust in someone. They are just going to teach your kids what they think is important. Are you not willing to have an opinion on whether they are choosing the right things to teach?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#80

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

Why can't I help but feel the "our users must never be forced to learn" and "our children must never experience discomfort" mindsets are related, and contribute to the US coming in last place.
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