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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#141

Post by esaym »

polymeris wrote: post #71
esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

That's depressing... poor kids.

How so? As a parent I shouldn't teach my kids what I know? (oh and btw, I know plenty more than just 'web dev' stuff)

What's depressing is "parents" that think complete strangers are responsible for the upbringing of their children.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#142

Post by shkkmo »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #98
hackuser wrote: post #19

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts " is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are…

> Help your parents with tech support at least once a year

I did that for a while, then once, when she had a basic problem with her printer, we spent a rather tense evening while I walked her through how I think through technical problems piece by piece and google stuff I don't know. She ended up figuring out a solution that I was unaware of.

She told me several weeks later she'd been able to solve a bunch of (to me) tiny problems and how proud she was.

In my experience, it seems like often the biggest thing standing between people like her, and technology is their own believe in their inability and tendency to give up.

Some of that falls on us, every time we step in a solve a problem for them in (to them) an incomprehensible manner rather than helping them find the information the need to understand and solve the problem themselves, we help reinforce that belief.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#143

Post by nommm-nommm »

madengr wrote: post #6

Not able to send a text messsage? That I don't believe.

You'd be surprised.

My mom can't figure out how to send a text message (even though I have shown her several times) and can't tell if she has new messages or not.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#144

Post by GreaterFool »

hackuser wrote: post #19

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

I grew up in Poland and both mathematics and technical skills were pretty high among my peers. Did the education system go down that much in the past 12 years?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#145

Post by vacri »

shkkmo wrote: post #142
squeaky-clean wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts " is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are…

> Help your parents with tech support at least once a year I did that for a while, then once, when she had a basic problem with her printer, we spent a rather tense evening while I walked her through how I think through technical problems piece by piece and google stuff I don't know. She ended up figuring out a solution that I was unaware of. She told me several weeks later she'd been able to solve a bunch of (to me)…

I used to work support for an agricultural telemetry company, and on helping a user with a laptop-based problem over the phone, he said "lucky we have you smart guys, I'm so dumb". To which I said "I know about computers, but I couldn't concrete in a post. The stuff you find trivial around the farm is stuff I'd struggle with"

I meant every word, too. I mean, I could describe the basic actions of concreting in a post, but I'd do a terrible job of it from both lack of interest in building and lack of practice. If you want a farm to fall apart, give it to me to maintain :)

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#146

Post by vacri »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #85
mdorazio wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be common. You can move to whatever school district you want to (if you have the money for housing there) and get that same level of education. No one's forcing you to send your kids to sub-par public schools.

Surely you don't believe the average American can just up and move to places with great public schools? I was privileged enough to grow up someplace that allowed me to go to a great public school. It's a great city by many measures, but poor in public transport, affordable housing, and working-class jobs.

Someone who has the capacity to pass on $60/hr work to their 13-year-old children certainly can.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#147

Post by marcus_holmes »

losteric wrote: post #124
ajmurmann wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to start the company that makes the only product that has it as part of its philosophy to make their users learn in order to be able to use it efficiently. That being said you are probably right and the dumbed down UIs we see more and more with low information density are annoying and underline what you are saying. Everything is catering to the lowest common denominator.

It depends on the product... Photoshop's did pretty well and it's learning curve is almost vertical. It's all about reducing pain. If you're automating something simple (like a TODO list), it better be stupid-friendly. But expert-oriented UX is fine for complex expert-level problems.

Photoshop's UI is developed for a market of people who have particular skills in... Photoshop's UI. Their learning curve is vertical because they have a large user base of people who have invested significant time and effort learning that arcane UI. They're also dominant in the market - any new designer had better know their way around Photoshop's UI or they're unemployable (at least until recently).

A new product in that market, aimed at the same audience, say.. Sketch... needs a friendly UI because it doesn't have the same invested user base.

In other words, Photoshop's UI can be difficult because it's always been difficult and its always been the dominant player in the market, not because it's expert-oriented.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#148

Post by vacri »

enraged_camel wrote: post #91
Retra wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because education is not a zero-sum activity?

The resources allocated to education are not infinite.

They don't need to be infinite; education just needs to be taken more seriously. And the public in general needs to understand that social programs they like need to be funded, and that sometimes means more taxes (education is basically a social program).

The US has a very high wealth per capita - if other countries with similar resources can do it, so can the US.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#149

Post by pasquinelli »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

i'm curious to know if your kids are hypothetical.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#150

Post by j1o1h1n »

hackuser wrote: post #21
victorhugo31337 wrote: post #3

This is what happens when no child is left behind. How can EVERYONE graduate from HS without lowering the bar?

Outcomes vary greatly by school, zip code, and socio-economic class. Are children in the wrong zip code just lazy? Why do the children in poor families perform so much worse than in rich families? It doesn't, by any measure, appear to be a consequence of the children's efforts.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151216082154.h...

"the influence of genes on intelligence varies according to people's social class in the US, but not in Western Europe or Australia. "

"That is, the relatively robust healthcare and social-welfare programs in Western Europe and Australia may buffer some of the negative environmental effects typically associated with poverty."

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